Playing with the boys

The Spec's Scott Radley reports:

'With few exceptions, girls who have wanted to play high school sports in Ontario over the years have had to do so on girls' teams, if one was available.

No more.

As of last week, girls now have carte blanche to play on boys' teams if they can make it. Even when a girls' team is available.

The decision stems from the case of a Waterloo high school student who filed a human rights complaint recently after her demand to play on the boys' soccer team was denied. As the process rolled on, Ontario Federation of School Athletic Associations lawyers decided they were going to lose the fight, so the organization relented before legal precedent was set. A negotiated settlement allowed it to write its own policy rather than being force-fed the wording.

"Absolutely I see this as a good thing," says the girl's lawyer, Grace Vaccarelli. "I don't think a woman should be told she can't play on a team because of her gender."

While others will join her in seeing this as a tremendous victory for women, not everyone's celebrating.

OFSAA's executive director Doug Gellatly says the new policy -- which he was against -- raises a number of issues.

Start with the obvious question before it's even asked: No, Gellatly says, if a girl takes a boys' spot on a team, a boy can't try out for a girls' squad in return.

If he requests the chance and is denied, he'd almost certainly be wasting his time launching a human rights case of his own.'

What do you think?

Comments

[Ed2]

Using this situation as a basis, then a male child should be able to force his way onto the venue grounds to participate in a girls league or sport.

Fair is fair.

[Jamie]

Here is some additional info on this. The girl plays on my stepsister's soccer team. The girl's father is the one pushing this. He is some big shot that now is a consultant for the natives in their endless demand for more so naturally he would be all over this so called fight.

[John]

Two cents worth. Slippery slope, thin edge of the wedge. As with most things today, good intentions are usually misguided. Soon there will be quotas to meet, changing standards, etc. That’s why police can now be 4 feet tall. Where have all the big farm boys gone ? And despite what some say, there will be lawsuits if a girl gets cut, touched, etc. Fem lawyers are always on 24 hour patrol. I’d hate to be a coach about to cut several female players and then having to face the irate parents and lawyers. You can’t say there won’t be lawsuits because that’s how all this starts, remember Justine Blaney, Boy Scouts, and the list goes on and on. Sorry I have to go, I’m depressing myself.

[DZ]

I am in no way against women playing on mens teams but this is not the right time. Women need to develop their own leagues so that in time they have relevant competition. That's why women's leagues everywhere are jokes, because the top female athletes abandon their opportunity to develop their sport in order to play with men and prove that "we're just as good as men".

Women's hockey is soon to be extinct as an olympic sport because there are only 2 relevant nations... How is Haley Wickenheiser playing with Finnish men helping women's hockey? Go to Finland and help develop their women's leagues! These women that are so concerned with equality should put that same effort into helping to grow their game so that in 20 years when my daughter wants to play hockey she'll have a well established women's league that is taken seriously because the best women play there... not just the ones who can't cut it in the mens leagues.

Someone has to pay the price and I don't think any of these women athletes are really willing to do so.

And don't get all involved with why should boys have the benefits of these sports or whatever because that is not the issue here. The real issue is these self righteous women who need to look at the big picture and be less concerned with themselves.

[Nate Borges]

I really dont have a problem with this. As long as she erns a spot on the team no big deal. When I was in high school we had a girl that played on our baseball and soccer team. She was just that good. this was 20 years ago.
what i do have a problem is someone playing human rights issues or calling it sexist.
If you want sexist and unfair treatment, try being a white male in this day and age.

[Skip]

N
it is not absurd to include boys who are not as good as the others. Sport is about participation not being elite. There are very few elite programs in the entire country.Is it equality to let the boy sit out when there is a team for him to play on? And as far as a boy going nowhere because he can't make an "elite" team that also applies for the ones that do make this team. The chances of going pro are very slim even for those on the best teams. Maybe scrap all girls sports because there not very good. There would be alot of cancelled sports because a great number of the boys who play sports aren't very good either
N
have you been playing a co-ed contact sport?, and don't say soccer

[N]

Michelle said: "But as others have said, what happens when playing a contact sport, will these girls be running to coaches and authorities complaining because they were touched, or hit? This really needs to be thought about!!"

If you read through the comments, you would see that people have ALREADY thought about it and addressed it. There are countless coed sports teams in every city and town across Canada, and elsewhere, for years. I have never heard of a lawsuit - just the idea of it is absurd. Do you even play sports? Do you have any first-hand experience in the issue that's being discussed?

Girls have been allowed for awhile now to play on boys high school teams if there is no girls team. I have never heard of any lawsuit. Stop with the lawsuit argument! It's a total red herring. At least provide an real example of the occurrence.

Girls playing on boys high school teams will not force every men's team from your local league to the Olympics to accept girls. High school is a SPECIAL situation, because there are NO divisions. So top female athletes in high school are often at a disadvantage which they probably will not face elsewhere. No one is calling for girls to play on provincial boys teams etc.

And for the last time, it's NOT the same for a boy to play on a girl's high school team, because girls' high school teams are generally of POORER quality. It's NOT EQUALITY for a boy to play on a women's team, because he would be going DOWN a level. Before this new change, boys ALREADY had a privileged position, and girls didn't. The purpose of this change is to extend that privilege to top female athletes. It is utterly absurd to say that if girls are allowed to play on a better team, than boys should be allowed to play on a poorer team.

[Stinger503]

Actually js, your point about women getting the vote is more myth than anything. Canada was only just over 50 years old by 1918. Before that voting rules were up to each province, which changed often. Also consider that voting had stipulations to it, for example having to own a certain amount of land.

It's quite ridiculous that for how much we tout "equality" we can have a story in the front page of a newspaper that's blatantly sexist. It's okay if it's against males though, right?

[Michelle]

If a girls team is available, the girl should be playing on the girls team. If there is not a girls team, than the girl should be able to play on the boys team. But as others have said, what happens when playing a contact sport, will these girls be running to coaches and authorities complaining because they were touched, or hit? This really needs to be thought about!!

[Skip]

girls sports will never grow if you separate the good and not so good players, its a disservice to all the other girls playing in girls leagues, they need to see the leadership and hard effort it takes to excel first hand. Also highschool sports are hardly elite programs

[Allan Taylor]

Having read the comments I'm forced to reconsider my statement. It appears women want to play as equals so we should allow it and outlaw all gender based sport. No more boys teams no more girls teams, just one varsity team and may the best athletes win. Thats really the only other choice IMO. It would be a giant step backwards for women but 1 out of every thousand female athletes would get their chance and to heck with everyone else.

[js]

While i agree with Mr Russel on his point that both genders should be treated equally; thus females should be able to play on male teams and vis-versa. i disagree that the "right of males in our society..." are adversely affected by the decision to permit females access on male sports teams. Frankly, men have long had more rights than women. A perfect example of this is the brief time that women have had the full right to vote (1918) in Canada.

In terms of females being able to now play on male high school sports teams, i say, about time! As a female hockey player who has played rep hockey on men's teams since i was 8 years old, i did not want to play on my high school girls team because the quality of the game was poor. Still to support my school, i did play, but thankfully outside of school I continued to play on my men's travel team (and no kevv i have not filed a lawsuit despite being 'ruffed up' on more than one occassion).

Simply put, its irrelevant to me whether my participation on men's teams diminishes women's hockey or takes a position away from a male. Its my choice to play where i want, and if i have the skills to play on a men's team, then i expect equal access to the sport both inside and outside of school.

[Tom Robertson]

In the long run I think this would hurt any female athlete with scholarship aspirations. She will gain more scouting attention excelling in the womens athletics rather than being a mediocre player or sitting on the bench on a male team. Not all families can afford to have their children play in elite leagues and high school athletics is their only place to shine.

[Aoife]

To those that say boys should try out for the girls team, you are missing the point, if a boy cannot make an elite boys teams then he is not going anywhere with soccer or any other sport and I doubt very much that boys would even want to play on a girls team unless its for other reasons.
Basically like another top team the best PLAYERS should be on the team.
For those you mentioned law suits for getting ruffed up, give me a break, take in some L1 Oysl girls soccer or take in a girls provincial team, who by the way often play against boys teams preseason for tougher practice, dont kid yourself some girls can play as tough and dirty as the boys.
Bottom line is if a female is so good she is not getting the competition etc in the girls game and if she can honestly through ability make a boys team why not.

[M. Woolley]

I really cant argue that the best athletes should be able to compete against the best competition available.
Conversely should a player be allowed to seek out his or her competitive level which suits his or her abilities.
It just may be that a young man may find his level of competition in a female dominated league or team and visa-versa
It just may be that a male dominated league does not allow his talents to flourish.
If those making the rules were actually interested in allowing an athlete to seek his or her skill level we wouldn't have to read as this article suggests that turn around will not be allowed to happen.
What ever happened to the old saying (whats good for the goose is good for the Gander).
I am a firm believer in equality FOR EVERYONE not just a chosen few.

MW

[Mandy]

This doesn't make any sense. Why can girls try out for boys' teams (even if there is a girls' team), but boys can't try out for girls' teams? That's not gender equality at all.

Besides, this won't work. When I was in highschool, there was no girls' football team, so two girls tried out for the boys' team. They made it onto the team (because nobody gets cut from tryouts), but they didn't play a single game because they weren't as good as the boys. That's not being sexist - it's just pretty unlikely that many girls would be able to hold their own against boys in physical games like rugby and football.

[Tyson]

i can't wait to try out on a girls team

[N]

re: complaints about lawsuits when girls play with boys

I`ve been playing coed sports for 10 years. Never heard of a lawsuit.

[Steve Sheen]

Im all for equallity but some would ask what about the olympic teams,such as womens hockey,mens hockey,and so on,will this effect the olympic teams?

[N]

The reason why nobody has ever fought for boys playing on girls teams is because no boys want to. Why - because the quality of women`s teams is often poorer. That`s why female athletes who excel don`t want to play for them either. Time and time again the disparity amongst women in women`s sports is huge at the high school level. In university or in travel leagues (if you live in a big city) there are divisions for women to group players according to skill, but not in high school. Yes, the new change is not entirely fair in some ways, but the old system was not either. The old system favours poor female athletes, who will benefit from having top players on their team, while this new change favours the good female athletes, and they are the ones who should be favoured. They are the ones for whom sports might be a future.

The truth is while overall the quality of women`s sports may tend to be poorer, you cannot draw a strict line between the genders in terms of sports ability. There will always be a class of female athletes who are head and shoulders above the rest of their sex, and forcing them to play below their level does not help them. I remember from my own experiences. We would have soccer coaches from US universities scouting a couple of the top girls on a team that included some girls for whom this was their first soccer team ever. How much skill are the scouted girls going to be able to show off when their teammates can`t even send a proper passÉ. This kind of situation occurs more often in small towns, where there is a smaller pool of girls to pick from.

[kevv]

sorry to say, most girls dont have the physical ability.
just wait till these girls get ruffed up by the boys then watch the lawsuits start.
it cant be a one way street,if girls can play on boys teams, boys should be able to play on girls teams.

[Robbie]

In the end this will hurt girl's sport.

[Jay]

Mike Russel nailed this one. I couldn't have typed it any better.

[Bill Curran]

The best athlete should play on the top elite teams. If the top elite team at a school is a boy's team (it usually is) and if that athlete is female, then so be it. If the borderline males get cut, then they should go out for a non-elite team. Why should they get elite support/funding when they are not the best? Historically, females have not had access to elite funding and coaching.

[W. Volterman]

I think the only fair solution is to axe the girls team and let anyone regardless of gender play any sport if they are capable. Who cares if almost no girls play, at least it will be 'fair', with no human rights violations.

[Skip]

the girls rights are being violated, but not the boys? sounds pretty sexist

[Mike Russell]

So let me get this straight, girls are free to tryout and play on boys teams but boys can't tryout or play on girls teams. How is this equality, how is it fair.

Once again, the human rights tribunal or should I say the threat of the human rights tribunal has trumped the rights of males in our society. If we are going to have equality then the rules should apply to all. As long as females and special interest groups continue to get preferential treatment the idea of equality is nothing more than a sham.

It's time to get rid of the Human rights tribunals altogether. They are nothing more than a tool used by the minority to impose their will on the majority in this province and country. This is a democracy, majority rules should prevail.

[Allan Taylor]

Girls have an opportunity to play elite athletics already. Taking on girls will deny that right to some boys who are the borderline picks while giving girls in the same position extra spots on the girls team. If I honestly thought that a girl was good enough to make the NHL NBA MLB MLS etc I'd be inclined to think differently

[Peter Michael]

How can it be a human rights issue for a girl to be denied playing on a boys team but not vice versa?

I'm just worried the first time a boy slide tackles a girl in a game he'll be charged with sexual assault...

[Michelle Hruschka]

Well if a girl can take a spot on a boys team, then the reverse should apply as well, a boy can take a spot aon a girls team.

Fair is Fair.

[Jamie]

Interesting..I was under the impression that we cut so much funding to our schools that sports was no longer available! As long as they make it through the try outs & are given the same testing as boys then who cares! There won't be flocks of girls trying out, after all we are talking about high school girls here!

[Dave]

Who cares, it's sports and kids should be playing them regardless of gender barriers and lawyers and human rights.

Get outside play and have fun, most importantly teach the kids sports"person"ship for those who may take offence to having man written in the middle.

Game on!