Shopping all day, every day

Toronto city council is close to approving changes that would allow retailers to open for business any time, including on the nine statutory holidays —   New Year’s Day, Good Friday, Victoria Day, Canada Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, Easter Sunday and Family Day.

Supporters argue it levels the playing field, since businesses in designated tourist areas can already do this, and also that it's fair for people who don't celebrate religious and other Western holidays. Critics cite quality of life issues, such as the right of workers to have some days off during the year, and also the perceive need to maintain traditional Canadian values.

There is no indication Hamilton would go in this direction, but if it happens in Toronto, the idea is bound to surface in other jurisdictions. What do you think?

Comments

[Pat]

Dear Bob Young,

Why don't you just take your team to Aldershot, Charlotte, or wherever you like. As a taxpayer I am tired of subsidizing a make work project for Americans. You offer nothing to this city. Build your own stadium anywhere you like, but don't count on public funds to continue to subsidize you in a FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM. Hamilton should build the Pan-Am Stadium where they like and tell the Ti-Cats to MOVE! By the way, level Yvor Wynne Stadium and make it into a public park.
The football team is inconsequential to the majority of Hamiltonians. If you want to know what the people of Hamilton want, don't merely survey your 10 000 season ticket holders(I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) but ask the tax payers of Hamilton. If you are not happy, sell the team to the other great Hamiltonian, David Braley, eventually he can own the entire operation.

[Denise]

I worked retail for many years after stores were allowed to operate on Sundays and Boxing Day. Trust me, there is *much* pressure on full-time workers and management to work those days. I had no option to alternate working holidays any given year. Students were the only workers who were able to say no to the holiday work without the added pressure. Hospital workers are least have the provision of alternating.
To those of you who disagree, have you *ever* worked retail? I worked for a certain Southern Ontario chain, and I was told by the owners and their director (as others were), that they would have no problem finding someone who desired the money to take the hours up once the holidays were over. I finally left after 7 years of that nonsense. And regarding the steelworker working on Boxing Day: he made a hell of a lot more than my pittance of 8 dollars an hour...just sayin'!

[Richie]

Anytime Martin Short, Ron Joyce, Daniel Lanois, or Jagori Tanna come back here, they sigh and think, "Man! I dodged a bullet by getting out of this place!" This overweight, white trash, union town that still has all it's eggs in the industrial basket despite it being 2010!!! The roads are in really poor shape and everyone is angry here. It doesn't matter if you make the streets two way or one way, people from out of town still won't want to come. It's broken. Transit is a failing joke. I can't wait to leave.

[Richie]

Karen and Melissa have just reminded me of why I so strive to leave this place and go live in Toronto. Many have left and gone on to do successful things there. There is an unspoken knowledge among these people that their goals would never be accomplished in such a close-minded city.

[Melissa]

I don't understand how anyone could possibly believe that keeping stores open on a Stat Holiday is a good thing. If this is the case, then everything should be open on Stat Holidays - I'm talking about banks, government offices and anyone else that typically enjoys the luxury of having a paid Stat Holiday while retail workers slave away in the stores.

Even though they would be very PC about it and say that it's "optional" to work....we ALL know that it's not "optional"....you'd be expected to work. We already work extended hours and have to put up with lousy customers....why can't we keep our one paid day off every 2 months? What is it that you really need to buy on that ONE day that you just can't do without? You can get milk, diapers and toilet paper at any local convenience store.

We all know that it's only "Big Business" that profits from this idea.....not the family unit. These days are the ONLY days I get to actually see my family - take these away and then what?

[Karen]

I work retail and have for several years. We are not a essential as hospitals etc are. When have you ever heard of any emergency concerning anything to do with shopping... please!!! the family united is shot because of sunday shopping.The general population does not have any more money to spend, all we will be giving them is more time to spend it. what happened to the retail employees rights. We are the worst paid, the most abused employees out there.And if you think that we have a say in whether we open or not on any stat holiday you are an idiot. Once a mall sets the hours every large company follows suit. No retailors will close because they will fear losing business. The malls become a cheap day care for most parents. Hey let's drop them off to the mall whether they purchase or not. We are not an entertainment center. Let's bring back the family unit and say no to any more shopping days or holidays. Karen

[JoanneB]

Although I am not discontent with the number of days stores are open in Hamilton, I would like to see stores open for longer hours. This will help Hamilton in many ways - for instance, create more jobs to fill those longer hours of operations and there will be more consumer spending. As Hamilton has a large bedroom community component, current business hours, particularly downtown, prevent Hamilton resident commuters from opening their wallets where they live and compels them to spend in the vicinity of where they work. When I first moved to Hamilton a couple of years ago, I was shocked at how early the sidewalks roll up!

[GIVE ME LIBERTY]

There will be no sacrifice in retail Jamie... This is based on speculation. It is illegal to deny someone their holiday. This issue is about people who want to work on holidays but are being forced to stay home. Get it yet?

[Jamie]

It's kinda crazy really. I mean, compared the rest of the world we already get virtually no stat holidays & now they want stores open even more. Can't we just stop a few days of the year?? I don't work retail so it makes no difference to me, but I can see the potential for those in retail to have to sacrifice their holiday at some time. Those that want to work it this year may not the the next forcing someone that may have been against the idea in the beginning.

[ANSWER TO 1984 IS 1776]

I don't see this meaning that Toronto employers can deny their employees any holidays throughout the year. It means that if employers want to stay open and pay time and a half to willing employees, they can. Stop with the whole "then we'll have no day off" garbage argument. You still will get your day off if you want but no one should be forced to accept your religious calender. I don't know if anyone else reads the Charter of Canadian Rights and Freedoms here but it clearly states the freedom of religion. That means if I don't want to take a holiday on January 1rst, then I can work and take the day off on January 7th... Understand now? Please don't list family day off with the rest of those holidays since the only people who are paid for family day are in unions. While the public sector gets paid for 9 holidays, the private only pays for 8. Thanks for helping yourself to Family Day, Dalton.

[Devon Tanner]

Sunday? Christmas? They're all the same to me. But that's just me. I don't think the same can be said for all the people who would be required to work those days. If it meant that the retailers would have to hire more part-time staff, that's fine - but I doubt that would be the case. It would more likely be a case of employers leaning hard on their already over-worked, low-wage staff under threat of losing their jobs.

[INVISIBLE EMPIRE]

Also, Jesus is not a regurgitation of Isis... Isis is Mary, Horus is Jesus. If Homer Simpson were born of a virgin on December 25th, healed the sick, had 12 disciples, and was crucified I'd say you had a point Ian.

[INVISIBLE EMPIRE]

Ian: You are a prime example of the type of people who cite unscientific sources to prove Jesus' existence. I'll elaborate. The first bunch of historians you've mentioned WERE NOT ALIVE AT THE PROPOSED TIME OF JESUS' LIFE. That is indisputable. Secondly, the four biblical accounts you speak of were also written by people who were NOT EYEWITNESSES TO THE LIFE AND DEATH OF JESUS. I didn't know this previously when I was apart of the Catholic Church but it's a fact that the earliest of those four gospels came up to 40 years AFTER the supposed death of Jesus. Furthermore, ONLY TWO OF THESE GOSPELS MENTION A VIRGIN BIRTH. Does that seem a bit strange to you? It seems that it would be hard to forget and leave out something as miraculous as a virgin birth does it not? But of course that doesn't matter when you're trying to reason with supernaturalist religious fanatics. There were plenty of historians in the Dead Sea region during the actual proposed life-time of Jesus and you know what Ian, NONE OF THEM MENTION "JESUS"!!! One does talk about a "Cristo" which means Christ of course, but doesn't mention "Jesus" once at all. The Catholic Church has forgery historical documents they claim proves Jesus was real, but these have been outted as hoax documents created in the 16th century by a Catholic apologist. So I am sorry my friend I still maintain that your caucasian man on the cross is an outright plagarism from old world religious legends. To be fair, it's a 50/50 chance that Jesus existed. Just like the 50/50 (2 of 4 gospels) that he was born of a virgin like so many other prophets. The truth is that if you saw Jesus speak in the way he does in the Bible, you'd probably think he was a socialist and throw him in Guantanamo Bay terrorist camp because he'd look quite middle-eastern. Jesus spoke out against government and religious establishment but was banished and ultimately murdered for this. There are many examples of poeple in modern times speaking out against the church and government and having the same things done to them by supposed followers of Jesus. If there's a 50/50 chance of him even being real, and I'm not Christian or religious, why is there a 100% chance that I will be forced to not work on his symbolic birth and death dates? How is this freedom and not religious discrimination Ian?

[Ian]

Answer to 1984,
No proof Jesus existed eh? Here's some names for you to google. Mara Saropian, Thallus, Lucian, Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Flavius Josephus etc etc. ALL of which were not followers of Christ, but documented his time on earth. And of course there are the 4 canonical accounts which are based on source documents written within decades after Jesus' lifetime, and therefore provides more actual evidence of the "historical" Jesus. Also, it is well known by theologists and believers that of course there were Roman Pagan influences upon the Christian community. You have Constantine to thank for that, but to say that Jesus was just a regurgitation of Isis, Pyrios, Aethon, Phlegon, or any of the other thousands of them, is absurd. If you took the time you could find a Sun God that mirrored Homer Simpsons life to the T. That argument is laughable in ANY secular philosophy course.

[Tracy]

It is sad to see how fast past and uncaring society has become. Stores being opened longer does not create jobs it just makes the owners and managers have to work more hours.
I cannot believe that not too long ago we survived with stores closing at 5:30 nightly except on Thursdays and Fridays. Banks were closed at 3p.m., and there was no Sunday shopping.
When Sunday shopping first came in employees could say they did not want to work and yes for a few months the government did protect them, now if you are scheduled on a Sunday it is just a regular day.

I hear people say that Public Servants, or hospital workers (people with real jobs, we refer to them in retail) have to work on Sundays and holidays. People with Real Jobs usually get a day or two off per week, if they work the holiday they get another day off.
Most persons in Retail don't ever get two days in a row off, the only time we did was when there was a stat holiday and there was NO Sunday shopping. I remember exactly when Sunday shopping was enacted. For the whole year, we in retail were excited because Christmas fell on a Saturday we would get 3 whole days off in a row! That never materialized.
Most say Customer service is way down, what do you expect.
We are the slaves of the 21 Century, we are tired, because some just cannot bear when stores close for a day or two.
Shameful

[ANSWER TO 1984 IS 1776]

There is no historical record of "Jesus" other than the Bible. Furthermore, he shares the same story as Horus, an Eqyptian fairytale religious figure like Jesus who came more than one thousand years before the supposed birth of christ... Let's review the similarities... Horus was born of the virgin Isis on DECEMBER 25th!!! Isis was impregnated by the spirit of god. Horus went on to perform miracles like healing the sick, raising the dead (a man named "Azar" which translates to Lazares, the man Jesus rose from the dead), and walking on water of course... He was tempted in the desert by the devil while alone, Horus had 12 disciples, travelled the land and was called the light, the way, the son, among other things... Horus was crucified, on the third day he rose from the dead... Sound familiar, it was written more than 1000 years before Jesus by the ancient egyptians and it was a lie too. Then there's many others sharing the same order of events like Krishna who also predates jesus and shares many of the same similarities. Truthfully, they stole the entire thing from the sun worshippers. The son travelling about with his 12 disciples is merely the SUN travelling thru the 12 months. It's all a whack of pagan mythological and astrological nonsense and it's a shame so many people die for this ridiculous fairytale. Don't tell me I HAVE to stay at home or not work just because your fictional saviour, along with a host of other fictional saviours supposedly died on this day or was born. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism hinge on this nonsense and it's the last stake in their coffins in my opinion. As a former devout follower of "Christ" I say look at the truth and you will find the real god. Not a god which is a man or a woman or a being in the sky... A set of variables or a force of nature rather which has allowed life to existl. Anything else is a crutch for religious fanatics to kill innocent people who disagree and molest innocent children while cloaked in a veil of tax-free secrecy. Stand up for humanity and demand your right to be a productive contributor to our society and economy.

[Peter Michael]

Tom McC, I somewhat agree removing minimum wage and letting the 'market' determine what minimum wage people will work for put in a maximum wage limit.

Would I be willing to work $8/hour for a certain job? Perhaps, depending on the work.

Would I be willing to work a $250,000/year job for half that? Perhaps, depending on the work.

Sure you want to hire the most qualified person for a job but a potential employer can offer me a wage for a job I apply for, if I don't think it's a fair wage I can make a counter offer or walk away.

Comparing workers who don't stand up for themselves in this day to slaves is just silly.

[ANSWER TO 1984 IS 1776]

Of course Tom MC is not an employer who wants to pay less than minimum wage... He's being sarcastic and attempting to smear people who refuse to go along with holidays. The comment makes it seem as if the people who want to keep there business open on holidays also want to pay their employees four dollars an hour and chain them to their desk. This kind of blind misrepresentation of facts is unfair to workers like myself who want to work on holidays. Sorry people didn't like my caps. It helps my message stand out from the socialist ramblings of people who think if you shop for bread on a holiday you're an evil, shopping addicted north american capitalist who wants to pay slave wages.

[Michelle Hruschka]

Cityneedsnewleaders: Your comment back to Tom Mcc was right on.

It is very disturbing that we have people in our midst that are advocating to pay employees amounts that would be less then minimum wage. Yes, these are the ones that want to bring workers down, to insist that they have no rights, that they are basically slaves.

Yes and these same people would most definitely call in the police to have them beat on workers if they actually stood up like in the strike of 1946, the winnipeg general strike.

This Tom Mcc could be a person just like that CEO down at that mining company where 29 workers died. Of course it is the profits that are important, workers are expendable, costs such benefits, pensions, environmental, safety impede their rights to making millions.

[BILL MURRAY]

I can't believe that the majority of Hamiltonians are against freedom of choice. By all means let the businesses decide if they wish to stay open on holidays , Sundays , or whenever. Let the public decide wether or not they wish to shop on those days and let the employees decide if they want to work for a business that operates on days that they would rather not work.
I for one will be happy to shop when I feel like shopping and stay home when I feel like staying home.

[Clark Da]

Yes, down with Dalton McGinky's nanny state. Finally we can have laws that favor small business instead of the unions

[manny]

All I can say is I'm glad I don't work in retail.

[Mike Russell]

Stormin,

We put up with 40 years of antiquated store hours laws under Conservatives in this province. I think if you care to check facts you will find that retail store hour laws were LIBERALIZED under the NDP and Liberal governments.

If the Conservatives had their way at the time we would never have had Sunday shopping let alone stat holiday shopping.

[Stormin]

Everybody needs to relax. Everyone knows the country is finally moving toward the right, common sense prevailes at last.
Let the market decide. No restrictions, no foolish laws about hours of business or wages. Let's finally do the right thing and succeed as we have always wanted to. The United States has recognized this for years. Finally, we are geting it.

[Ian]

Walmart loves this idea, they can pay their employees in coal and the little ma and pa stores can shrivel up and die because they will have to worked 7 days a week or hire an employee that will surely be the straw for them. The sooner we can get these pesky little regional markets and goods out of here the sooner we can get the real good stuff from China. Yay!!!

[Kathy Hagan]

There are so many issues with this debate. I personally feel there is ample time to shop and present shopping hours suit me fine and so, if there was a vote on this I would vote to leave law as it stands.

[Steve Sheen]

Shopping all day,every day?good and it would mean more jobs for people,and more off time for over worked people,a defenate boost to the economy i think.

[CityNeedsNewLeaders]

To Tom Mcc - you are kidding right? I hope that you are not an employer who wants to pay LESS than 10.50/hr. If you are, you should be ashamed of yourself. Slavery ended a long time ago.....

[CityNeedsNewLeaders]

Note to Give Me Liberty - GIVE ME A BREAK! - and turn off your all caps key!

It's VERY annoying.

[Tom McC]

Finally. And let's get rid of the minimum wage that makes it hard to make money. I should be able to pay whatever I want to whoever will do the work. And hire who I want, as well.

[Jay]

This is a great idea. Last time I looked at the labour laws, you have to give employees an OPTION to work on a holiday or not. You can't fire anyone for not *wanting* to work on an actual holiday.

So, having said that.. If the market is there, and the workers are *willing* to work, why the heck not?

And, also I know there are people close to me with young kids, trying to make ends me who would KILL for double time for a day, just to help them pay their bills. No one mentions them in these debates. It's always about slavery and blah blah blah.

Also, what about people who aren't Christian and don't buy into Christmas, why should YOUR holiday affect them?. Let them shop.

[GIVE ME LIBERTY]

EMPLOYEES SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO THEIR HOLIDAY IF THEY WISH TO TAKE IT. IF THEY WISH TO WORK, I'M AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT TELLING A BUSINESS, "YOU MUST BE CLOSED TODAY". THAT IS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL FOR THE 15% OF CANADIANS WHO SEE THRU THE RELIGIOUS STUPIDITY OF MOST HOLIDAYS. IF ALL THE EMPLOYEES WANT THE DAY OFF, ME AND MY BOSS WANT TO WORK BECAUSE WE'RE NOT RELIGIOUS AND HATE OUR FAMILIES PRETTY MUCH. I ALWAYS HATE IT WHEN THERE'S NO GROCERY STORES OPEN ON THE HOLIDAYS. LET WORKERS WHO WANT TO MAKE MONEY WORK AND LET PEOPLE WHO NEED TO PURCHASE FOOD DO SO. NOT SURPRISED THAT TORONTO CHOSE TO DO THIS SINCE THEY'RE LEAGUES AHEAD OF THIS WHITE-TRASH RUST-BUCKET TOWN. AS A CAUCASIAN, FORMERLY CATHOLIC CANADIAN MAN I SAY STOP IMPOSING YOUR RELIGIOUS INSANITY ON ME. LET'S ALSO MOVE TO ONLY PAY POLITICIANS FOR THE HOLIDAY INSTEAD OF ALL THE DAYS IN BETWEEN AND AFTERWARD LIKE IS CURRENTLY BEING DONE.

[Mike Russell]

Why not?

I don't buy the arguement that retail workers are entitled to have holidays off. I don't get that option and many others in the community don't either.

I say let the market determine when stores should be open. If there is no business they will not open. Let's get rid of all these antiquated store hour bylaws once and for all.

[Grace]

I do not agree with being open on those special days however everyone seems so concerned about those that would BE FORCED TO WORK on those special days. There have been people working on those special days for ever...the health care workers, the steel workers, the refinery workers, the police department, the fire department etc etc.... any concerns about these people working on those special days??????

[Peter Michael]

Maintain traditional Canadian values? Who are we kidding? Traditional values have been gone for decades. Shopping all day, every day is the Canadian, and North American, value. People suffer withdrawl the few days a year they're currently unable to shop.

[Dave]

ALL WORK NO PLAY MAKES FOR SLAVERY!!!!

[Natalie]

It would be fine if employees were truly give the "option" to work however I'm sure there will be pressure.

[Theresa]

I am totally against stores opening on holidays.
The workers would have even less time for family.
Especially given that times like Christmas are family times.
I for one will not shop on such days.
Theresa

[ed]

A stroll through the mall on a sunday or a holiday with family is a day with family, either way.
Funny we're worried about workers having to work at a nice warm clothing store on sundays or holidays but no one seems to give a rats arse about the guy slugging through horrid conditions in the steel industry on that same holiday.

[CityNeedsNewLeaders]

I can't beleive this is still being deabted in 2010.

There should be unlimited restrictions as to when a store opens. That should be left entirely up to the store owner as he/she sees fit.

As for those that complain that they will be "forced" to work on the holidays - nonsense. There will be lots of people who will gladly work those days for time and a half or double time. Besides, nobody in the province of Ontario has to work more than 44 hours a week - that's the law.

[Dave]

Give those retail workers a day off. They work hard enough during the holidays. There is plenty of time to get shopping done with extended hours already.

[lalala]

What about people who are not Christian or don't celebrate Christmas? Some people would want to work Christmas and have days off that are significant to their religion or life.

[Sw.]

Great news for those who are tied of Dalton's nanny state. We are all adult enough to decide if we want to shop, and when we want to shop. No brainer for all governments

[Mike Peters]

Of course Hamilton should do this. We have too many stupid laws on the books now. Let the market decide. Get government out of our face.

[Cheryl]

I cannot believe they would even consider opening stores on holidays. What about those that will be forced to work on those days? I don't believe for one second that employees who don't want to work will not be forced. I for one will not support any of these stores who would choose to open on holidays. For some, these days are the only time they get to spend with their family.