Tories take a stand on abortion

Torstar News Service reports:

'OTTAWA — The Conservative government has declared that it will not support foreign-aid projects that include abortion.

“Canada’s contribution to maternal and child health may involve various interventions, including family planning, which includes the use of contraceptive methods. The details remain to be determined; however, Canada’s contribution will not include funding of abortions,” Bev Oda, the federal minister of international co-operation told reporters in Halifax Monday after she arrived for a meeting of G8 development ministers.

Her comments followed a similar statement by Conservative MP Jim Abbott, her parliamentary secretary, in the Commons.

“Canada's contribution to maternal and child health may include family planning. However, Canada's contribution will not include funding abortion.” MP Jim Abbott, parliamentary secretary for international development, announced in the Commons on Monday.'

What do you think?

Comments

[GIVE ME LIBERTY]

Well FRED I wouldn't personally deny anything to obese people or smokers but one thing's for sure: I'd pay my own way and mind my own business about other people's procedures. Liberty can be achieved once we stop expecting others to pay for us. You can also make a choice to pay for health care in countries other than the United States. Italy, Israel, and India are all somewhat affordable countries which care can be purchased from at a more affordable price than in the US in a lot of cases. Canada likely would be on that list if only we weren't so commie. Honestly though, I think they're all quacks and we should be able to save our own money and buy vitamins, fruit and vegetables, insurance, procedures, or whatever we want or don't want really. That's why our flag is red and white. Big land of trees and snow controlled by communists. Michelle brings up ehealth and scandals like it. I think it's worth mentioning that every time we hear "this is really going to help people" it ends up being a government feeding trough. Don't you get it yet? Socialism is great in theory but ALWAYS fails in delivery and eventually erodes into the creation of a worker class and a political class that we see in Ottawa. All these crown corporation people and CUPE arm-twisters too. I'm a lower-middle class person who wants to escape these cottage-owning panhandlers and pay my own way.

[Fred]

Prison Planet wrote:

>Fred, socialized health care is the root of this problem.

You're kidding me, right? The notion that women's bodies are public property pre-dates recorded history. It is hardly the result of 'socialized medicine'. You only need to look south to see abortion rights being chipped away in a 'free market' healthcare system to realize that.

The option to terminate a pregnancy is a vital part of women's healthcare. It is not a question of making their mistakes the public's responsibility unless you are also planning on denying cancer treatment to smokers and obese people.

[Peter Michael]

While I'd slightly agree, isn't it often, not always, the woman that put themselves in a position for "the men who impregnated them simply walk off into the sunset, carefree and totally blameless, regardless of the society it occurs in."?

[PRISON PLANET]

"The anti-choice stance is the extreme outcome of our society's belief that women's bodies are public property."

Fred, socialized health care is the root of this problem. We don't believe that women's bodies are public property. We're saying that there are women who seem to think that their mistakes are the public's responsibility to fix. There is no private property in Canada anyway. If I get my girlfriend pregnant and then tell her, "Ooops, we don't have enough money for this, can you get an abortion?" and then she said no... What happens to me? I pay child support and have no choice. Whether an abortion was performed or the child grew up and I paid child support, IT WOULD STILL BE ME AND MY GIRLFRIEND'S FAULT.

I feel like we're moving more and more into a culture of people who are trying to dodge blame and run from their responsibilities. Politicians, police, banks, corporations, everyone wants to pass the buck and make someone else clean up the mess. It's lazy moronic insanity.

I was just at the "May Day" festival and it was hilarious. The Communist Party was there, apparently they didn't get the memo that this already is a communist country (central bank, heavy tax on income, large % of population employed by government, "universal" health care). The kids' jumper at the May Day Festival was powered of course by a gas generator pump. Everyone drinking from the evil water-bottles and smoking cigarettes. Some cool music I guess. Overall though, Hamilton is a total commie hell hole. The steel workers were walking around waving their stupid union flags. How strange of them to be mingling with pseudo-hippie environMENTALists when they directly profit off destroying the lake and oxygen. Oh well they're in a union, and unions are far out man. I'm not going to stick around to have my kids get stuck with environmental clean-up taxes from their godforsaken mess. Oh well, we'll all have a cup of Tims and some smokes and smug on about how green and totally PC we are.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

Well, my apologies, but certain people keep turning these forums into their own personal battlefields by incorrectly interpreting things people say to suit themselves in order to have a basis on which to attack the other person.

Of course I'm emotional about this issue. It's emotional for all women. It angers me that women have always carried the burden for accidental or unwanted pregnancies...and are called "Jezebel" or "not nice" or "loose" or "slut" while the men who impregnated them simply walk off into the sunset, carefree and totally blameless, regardless of the society it occurs in.

[Allan Taylor]

PS
Gender bias is a huge part of this discussion. It is well within reason that I pointed out that its not only men who are guilty of it. Frankly I find much of the males don't understand nonsense very offensive

[Allan Taylor]

Just stop the personal attacks , simple
(Blogger's note: Yes, and this applies to everyone)

[Fred]

Ian wrote:

>Oh so rich people don't have abortions and poor christian families don't adopt? Man do I have news for you.

Of course rich women have abortions. I was responding to the posters who wish to deny abortions to women who can't afford to pay the full cost themselves, creating a wonderful dystopia where rich women will still have access to abortions, but poor women will be doubly punished by being forced to give birth against their will. And what on earth do the religious beliefs of the adopting families have to do with the price of tea in China?

>And as for birthing risks, well there are substantial risk with abortions also, and do I dare mention the mental anguish that goes along with it which in many situations lead to depression and suicide.

The risks associated with abortion don't even come close to the risks associated with pregnancy and childbirth, and the overwhelming feeling reported by women who have had abortions is one of relief. Anti-choicers love to make a big deal about the supposed depression that follows an abortion in an effort not to appear as the misogynists they actually are.

In any case, you are missing the point being that it is one of CHOICE. Women who choose abortion knowingly take on the associated risks, you are talking about women being forced against their will to take on the far greater risks of pregnancy and childbirth. This is a grotesque violation of the rights, dignity and agency of adult women. Men would never stand for having their bodies violated by the state in such a way. The anti-choice stance is the extreme outcome of our society's belief that women's bodies are public property.

[ralph m]

[i]"And as for birthing risks, well there are substantial risk with abortions also, and do I dare mention the mental anguish that goes along with it which in many situations lead to depression and suicide."[/i]

Ian, could you post some numbers comparing pregnancy risks vs. abortion risks (and I'm talking about first trimester clinic abortions, not the risky late term ones that have to be done in a hospital)

Even the sites with all of the anti-abortion propaganda cannot make a claim that abortions are more dangerous than pregnancy and childbirth.....and that goes for here where good medical care is available, and 3rd World countries.

As for the "mental anguish," how about if we let those who actually bring the babies into this world decide whether that mental anguish outweighs the anguish of going through pregnancy and bringing a child that can't be properly cared for into this world. I would guess that a lot of anguish may be suffered by many teenage girls and young women who are told they've killed a baby by having an abortion. A recent law passed in Oklahoma requires any female seeking an abortion to meet with a pro life advocate and then have to watch an ultrasound of the fetus before an abortion is allowed......now that sounds to me like emotional blackmail intended to cause mental anguish.

[ralph m]

[i]"Ralph, This article has nothing to do with the legalization or criminalization of abortion. This is about whether the government should subsidize mass abortions in 3rd world countries to alleviate overpopulation."[/i]

On the contrary, attempts to defund abortion in the 3rd World have everything to do with the arguments behind the abortion debate.

The number one mistake of liberal progressives is that most refuse to even argue the morality of whether a woman's decision to have an abortion is an ethical choice....every pro choice argument is focused on privacy rights and cedes the moral high ground to the anti-abortionists. The end result is that even pro-choicers start thinking that a woman may have a right to have an abortion, but she's immoral to do so. And that is precisely why abortion rights, along with many forms of birth control have become unavailable in many areas of the U.S.

Now, when it comes to the 3rd World, most women have no access to legal abortion, let alone condoms and birth control. If they are healthy married women, they are stuck having another baby every year until they either die in childbirth, or are sterilized by complications from a bad pregnancy. The only alternative is the traditional abortion method -- taking some sort of poison that induces miscarriage. Anyone who believes moral choices should be governed by which ones will lead to the most optimal outcomes will conclude that anything and everything should be made available for women in impoverished countries who up till now, have had little if any choice about how many children they are going to have during their lives.....and I didn't even get to the impact that overpopulation has on: Climate Change, loss of natural habitats, resources scarcity, water shortages etc. None of these problems can be addressed without getting control of population, and undo the damage done by U.S. Republicans and reactionary religious conservatives who want to bring every pregnancy to term and then wash their hands of the consequences!

Anyone who's interested in hearing how the problem of lack of choice impacts women in East Africa should give a listen to Thursday's episode of The Current, on CBC Radio...podcast available here:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2010/04/april-29-2010.html

[Sue-Ellen M.]

Please stop singling me out, Allan. Obviously you have something against me personally but please don't involve me...it's your problem to deal with, not mine.

You should deal with the issue...not your animosity against another poster.

(Blogger's note: This is not directed to this poster, but to all. Please keep the discussion on the subject, and not personalities. )

[Ian]

Oh so rich people don't have abortions and poor christian families don't adopt? Man do I have news for you.

And as for birthing risks, well there are substantial risk with abortions also, and do I dare mention the mental anguish that goes along with it which in many situations lead to depression and suicide.

I have never met a girl who was upset that they had decided against abortion and went ahead and had their child. I have known a girl(former roommate), who had 3 abortions with the same man and was forced into it by her boyfriend because it was available. After everyone, she fell into a severe depression that lasted for weeks. I was recently talking to her and she still has a hard time dealing with it.

I don't expect to change the minds of people like Fred, who can't see life for what it is, but what I can do is keep voicing my opinion about it letting people know that there are alot of good families out there that can love their child as their own.

Lastly, I always wanted the womb to be the safest place for a baby, but in this evil world even that's not safe. What's next, aborting the baby when they are 2 months old because they aren't convenient or may cause extreme emotional pain to the mother? You would probably say that is a ridiculous statement, but 50 years ago state sanctioned abortion was too.

[Allan Taylor]

You are welcome to disagree Sue Ellen but keep it factual rather than personal and emotional. You lose the argument when you imply men have no right to an opinion simply because of their sex.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

Well, Nate, maybe there should be more of a focus on men taking more responsibility for birth control...if a man refuses to use a condom, no sex. There should be a law, especially in the cases of minors.

And this is another big problem...blaming the young girl for her "stupidity". But wait a minute, Nate, she didn't get herself pregnant, yet she alone is "trashy". What about the guy who had sex with her without any regard for the use of proper contraception?

By the way...how many times have you been pregnant, Nate??

[Fred]

What makes you think I have no idea how many people want to adopt? The idea that the state should be forcing poor women to carry babies to term and go through childbirth against their will, so that rich people can adopt their children is repugnant. Pregnancy and childbirth come with a laundry list of medical risks, not to mention the mind-blowing pain of childbirth, yet you believe that women should be forced by the state to endure this? That is nothing short of slavery for the crime of having two X chromosomes, and has no place in an egalitarian, democratic society.

[Ian]

Fred, If you had ANY idea how many people are out there waiting to adopt, you would be against abortion too. The fact is, there is no reason for the wholesale elimination of beating hearts, when so many people are unable to have children but have so much love to give. I don't know what the answer is, but I know that this is a very decisive issue that has divided this country and there should be no way that a minority government should take a stand for or against it with taxpayers money.
I would never want a law outlawing abortion because there is always a need for it medically, but can we agree that there needs to be more education about options available to young mothers who feel they have no other choice, when there really is.

[Fred]

Give me Liberty wrote:

>I don't support giving abortions to people who can't afford them ...

Great! So, forced births for poor women. I trust you'll be willing to support the unwanted children then, since their parents can't afford to. You should change your name to Give Rich People Liberty.

[Nate Borges]

The reasons abortions for third world nations, I would imagine are not for the same reasons they are preformed here. Here they are usually performed on yourng women who made a life altering mistake and they dont want mom and dad to find out.
As a male I do support that women should have this choice. But I have little or no respect for women that have it done beacuse of stupidity. I am not sure why i feel that way but thats they way it is. Its not a right life thing. I just find it trashy.

[Allan Taylor]

I'm guessing you think I object to abortion Janet. You'd be wrong if my guess is correct. What is wrong is to use abortion as family planning or a method of birth control. There are good reasons to have an abortion but it should be a last resort not a first choice

[Bart Wang]

To those believe that the Conservative party oppose abortion, consider this your wake-up call from several years ago. This current decision looks good (to the conservative supporters) but abortion is not illegal in Canada. The PCs have publicly stated that abortion is not an issue they will take a stand on. The Spect even published an article about that a few years ago. Why are you so proud of not funding abortions in other countries but you don't oppose the party for supporting them at home?

To those who have fallen for the classic 'Christian=conservative' fallacy, please modify your language. Bart apologizes that so many of his brothers and sisters act poorly and have tried to tie up Jesus with a political agenda. Jesus was not a political king and told the authorities of his day as much. People today have forgotten that, however. Bart is a Christ-follower and would not align himself with the Conservatives. Of course, he's growing less and less interested in politics altogether (but consistently votes NDP).

[GIVE ME LIBERTY]

The problem with both leftists and ring-wingers is that they're both very intent on destroying others' freedom. Leftists want people who don't morally support abortions to pay for them. Right wingers want people who have their own money for abortions to not be allowed to have one. Both the bleeding hearts and the christian extremists are being unreasonable and unfair to the other side. If conservatism holds any truth, it is that each person should not be subject to the nanny state. Why then are we attempting to control what medical procedures a person partakes in? I don't support giving abortions to people who can't afford them but to ban them because of your religion... That's the kind of fascism you see with the islamic clerics... Public policy influenced by non-scientific religion. They claim that earthquakes are caused by cleavage.

[Janet Weir]

It never ceases to amaze me that the people who object most to abortion are MEN!

[Allan Taylor]

Abortion is not family planning nor birth control. The Government position is correct.

[ralph m]

Ian, yes this does have to do with the legalization and criminalization of abortion, because we've seen this movie before!

The very first moves Ronald Reagan made against the abortion issue when he became president in 1981 was to order Medicaid programs to defund abortion, and ban funding for abortion in U.S. foreign aid programs. Now that the world is entering a perfect storm of surging birthrates in the Third World, combined with environmental degradation and declines in available fresh water, any policies that deliberately add to population increase are immoral, and not an evidence of piety.

As for the abortion issue here; the similarities of the Harper strategy and the approach U.S. conservatives have taken over the last 30 to 35 years cannot be overlooked. Rather than a full frontal assault to ban abortion, the anti-abortion movements and largely Republican politicians, have followed the incremental approach of harassment and intimidation to scare abortion clinic workers and women attempting to enter them, along with laws defunding abortion, using zoning bylaws to close clinics, so that now according to Planned Parenthood 30% of U.S. women have to travel 50 miles or more to the nearest clinic...and of course pay cash when they get there since most employer health plans don't cover abortion. The end result, no big surprise, is that access to abortion has become an issue of economic class in the U.S., where upper and middle class women can still get an abortion if they want it, but poor women cannot and are forced to add another member to the child poverty crisis in many cities. This is why so many U.S. women are nonchalant about abortion; they feel it's available if they decide they need it...even many conservative, pro life parents sneak their daughters off to clinics in other cities rather than face the shame of having an unwed mother at home. There are likely many women at abortion clinic picket lines who have snuck off to have abortions elsewhere because they felt their situation was different and it was justified in their own unique case.

So, should we go down the same road as the U.S. because of fake concern for embryos and fetuses? That's why something also has to be said about the brainwashing of the religious right that makes no distinction between embryos and babies. Too many people who should have rational thinking ability have swallowed this propaganda and given them the moral high ground, when the policies they advocate increase misery and hardship for people who can't properly provide for extra babies.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

I agree with you also, Janet.

I don't think men can really grasp this issue as well as women can...they don't have the ability to become pregnant.

[FALL OF THE REPUBLIC]

No one should have to pay for another's abortion unless they donate to the abortion charity because they're pro-choice. No pro-lifer should be able to deny and pro-choice person an abortion based on their beliefs. The only person who should have to pay for it is the rapist or the people who partake in making the child in the first place.

[Peter Michael]

Ian, I'll have to agree. Far too many socialists on here that are willing and able to give their hard earned money to those that, in many cases, have no work ethic and believe they are entitled to everything the working have spent years acquiring.

That said, it probably now makes me look as an unwholesome person just like you apparently are. One day I also strive to be 'a legend in my own mind'...

[Ian]

Peter Michael,
FYI, on this forum only right wing, conservative reactionaries like me are uncivil, the lefties are just "passionate".

[Ian]

Janet says: "Children die of malnutrition everywhere, including our city. Of course you don't hear about it, poor kids aren't newsworthy unless they live far away. Sad but true."

Really?!?! Do you have idea what would happen if a child died from malnutrition in Canada. It would be covered by national news, the parents would be charged with failing to provide the necessities of life, willful endangerment, and/or manslaughter. The fact is the people who are on social assistance are better off then the working poor. AND it is common knowledge that many young woman get pregnant for the sole purpose of increasing their social benefit allowance. Fact.

[Ian]

Yes Sue, That is me, I went on a vacation with my wife. Your point? Please don't turn this into an other ufc debate. We already locked one thread.
I also try and give 10% of my income between church and charity, but taxes are making that harder to do every year.

[Peter Michael]

"Ian: Are you off your rocker or is it that you just choose to perpetuate propaganda about those who struggle."

And just as quickly as 'civility' was supposed to be introduced to these forums it has disappeared...

[Peter Michael]

"the real impoverished Canadians are the ones who go to work everyday and give 42% of their paycheck to those who refuse to get out of the cycle of dependence."

Amen brother Ian, Amen!

[Ian]

Ralph, This article has nothing to do with the legalization or criminalization of abortion. This is about whether the government should subsidize mass abortions in 3rd world countries to alleviate overpopulation. With such a hot topic and a majority of Canadians being morally opposed to abortion (not the criminalization) why would PMSH enact a policy that is completely out of synch with that majority?

And as for Michelle and her coat hanger analogy, well that is another example of hyperbole that rarely rears its ugly head. Fact is, if abortion is not a choice for mothers, they then make a choice to carry to child to full term for adoption, but usually once they see the baby they decide to keep it, and rarely regret it. Currently in Canada there is a large backlog of families waiting to adopt into good homes, so personally, I have NO idea why abortion is even an option. Well I have one idea why, after talking to a young woman from the EPAU who was on suicide obs, she didn't want to lose her figure...

Personally, I think abortion should still be available for extenuating circumstances, but as a means of birth control and convenience, I am morally opposed.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

If this is the same Ian from the UFC argument, you also said you'd spend $1,500.00 on a weekend in Montreal, going to the fights and then going dancing after. You have money for charity, too?

[Jamie]

I have never voted conservative & never will. Reading some of the comments I'd even draw the conclusion that some of their supporters are religious nuts! I am all for education on birth control, but this isn't always an option. As for the comment "I would like to see life blossom from such a tragedy" Ya sure...real easy for you to say that when not put in that situation. Vote wisely people, there actually IS a lesser evil of the big three.

[Janet]

Children die of malnutrition everywhere, including our city. Of course you don't hear about it, poor kids aren't newsworthy unless they live far away. Sad but true.

If we don't fund abortion in third world countries, we end up sending money to support kids in orphanages, for health care, for housing etc. It's a different world where an unwanted pregnancy doesn't mean the cost of a laptop or the right running shoes, it means another mouth to feed, another body to clothe and another child who suffers for an entire lifetime until they die at an (by our standards) early age.

The truth is that anti-abortion zealots/right wing conservatives see the world through a filtered lens that reflects back to them what they want to see and leaves out the reality.

In the words of the band Everlast:

Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom who said he was in love
He said don't worry about a thing baby doll I'm the man you've been dreamin' of
But three months later he said he won't date her or return her call
And she sweared god damn if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls
And then she heads for the clinic and she gets some static walkin' through the doors
They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner, and they call her a whore
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes
'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose
Then you really might know what it's like.

Stephen Harper, If you haven't walked the walk, don't talk.

[ralph m]

Do we need any more proof that the Harper Conservatives are following the Republican playbook?

The Republicans devised a strategy 30 years ago to win over evangelicals to do the groundwork of the Party, just by throwing a few bones like mentioning God in their political speeches and claiming Christian values, and of course denying women reproductive choice to show how much they cared about the sanctity of life. And just like the U.S. conservatives, the Canadian version cares about life...until it's out of the womb. Then, they have nothing to offer to address the huge problems facing the world with overpopulation and increasing malnutrition.

As for all of the fundamentalists who think they are demonstrating their concern for life by interfering with women who do not want to continue their pregnancies -- the majority of abortions occur in the first trimester of pregnancy.

Prolifers are oblivious to the real suffering of children growing up in poverty here, and the absolute hellish conditions in many impoverished countries, yet they come unglued over the imagined suffering of fetuses that haven't reached a stage of brain development to have any conscious awareness in the first place.

The nations that ban abortion illustrate that the real goal is not saving "unborn" children. It's about returning society to the traditional patriarchal norms that existed before oral contraceptives and legal abortions were available. Social conservatives want higher birth rates and women back in secondary, supporting roles in society. And women who support this are their own worst enemies.

[mister doobulous]

Posted by: Michelle Hruschka April 27, 2010 at 08:51 PM

Some people on this board are totally unaware of the magnitude of this depression, or the fact it will take years for the world economy to recover.

http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp

Most of the 'bad stats' in the US are available on that page. Naturally, since we are their largest trading partner, we are, and will continue to feel the cascade affect of what's happening there.

As to the abortion side of the issue ... we are being 'gamed' by the 'polymorphed-out' Conservative Reform Alliance Party. CRAP

Denying access to medically administered abortion will result in the primitive unsterilized coat hanger on the kitchen table ... If they have a coat hanger and kitchen table.

Harper, Real Women and Charles McVety prefer that style ... because it 'speaks to their base.' So does Sarah Palin, kangaroo switchabout extraordinaire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXVIwo5fLYs

[Ian]

Michelle,
Although I have no idea what this has to do with the 3rd world abortion issue, I do know that the poor in this country would be considered wealthy in the countries this article is refering to.

Secondly, you have no idea where I have come from. I too have been laid off in the past, but unlike all the other workers beside me who couldn't find work, I was job forecasting and retraining while I WAS working. I then saved every dime I had and put myself through university with absolutely no loan. In this day and age workers can't be complacent and expect shareholders to cradle them until they retire, they always need to be ready to change fields, go to school and prepare for the future. If you don't prepare in the summer, you die in the winter.

[Michelle Hruschka]

Ian: Are you off your rocker or is it that you just choose to perpetuate propaganda about those who struggle.

I suggest that you go in front of those workers who have lost their jobs, EI has run out and cannot find work and have to apply for welfare.

I do not know but something tells me that karma should bite you in the butt and you lose your job and your family living in dire poverty.

I suggest you go in front of the children that go hungry in our community and spout your rhetoric.

Not everyone who access social services wants to be there.

Keep on telling lies! And besides, who says you are wholesome person, a legend in your own mind.

[Ian]

Sue Ellen, I am a compassionate man, that is why I speak up for the unborn? I also have compassion for the mother, because I understand that for those mothers who do abort their child are far more susceptible to mental anguish, depression, addiction and suicide. I also understand that for those mothers who decide to keep their child, never live to regret it and may have problems from day to day, but still have the beauty of a babies eyes to look into when they get home.
As for the 11 year old who was raped by a tribal gang, well I would like to see life blossom from such a trajedy, however even if she didn't want it, I know of many Christian missions in subsahara africa that have adoption agencies, orphanages, schools, church communities and the like. I would love to give more of my money to my church for such missions, but i am being taxed to death to pay for the welfare recipients in my own city. Thanks to socialists like Michelle, who would rather spend other peoples money to pay for their own special interest groups who are doing just fine in relation to Africans. See the catch-22.

[Ian]

Lalala,
What in particular am i ill-informed about? Or did you expect us all to just assume you are the go to guy about maternal health and abortion?

[kathy hagan]

I agree with Harper. Birth control education is the number one approach to reducing the need for abortion. Abortion is not in my opinion birth control, it is the killing of a foetus. I do not expect others to share my view everyone has the right to differ. This is such a hot button subject and very emotional for many.

[ANSWER TO 1984 IS 1776]

Ian is correct. "Family Planning" has absolutely zero to do with the health of Africa and 100% to do with elitists pushing for an alternative to genocide. When I say genocide I mean, the western power elite want Africans dead so they can take the resources the continent sits upon. This is a very intelligent way of operating under the guise of humanitarian effort while instead of mass-exterminating a particular race, you prevent it from even being born. There are overpopulation problems in Africa, anyone who doesn't think so has their head in the sand... However, the earth has a natural way of correcting this when there's not enough food in a particular region. It's sad but true. I am not a right-wing Christian dude who thinks abortions are evil and wrong. Truthfully I am an anarchist who believes that each person should have the right to choose, but no one should have to fund another's abortion, or be prevented from purchasing one with their own money because of someone else's beliefs. But look here... These people have no money. Elitists are buying these crude procedures through the guise of environmentalism and "family planning". Anytime you see contributions to "help" with African poverty from the likes of the Sierra Club or Bill and Linda Gates foundation you should know that this is a front for chemical sterilization of women and abortions for those who are pregnant (often against their will or without their knowledge). One way this is done is by having women go fill out a survey in a room which, unknown to them, is filled with radiation from an XRAY type machine. This is directed toward the reproductive organs and after about 5 minutes of paperwork, they're rendered sterile without their knowledge. Not just a scary story... It's the truth.

[lalala]

Ian, your rhetoric is ridiculous. I am surprised it was posted. You clearly are uninformed about abortion and maternal health. That makes it impossible to have any kind of intelligent conversation.

Michelle, you are spot on.

[Ian]

Michelle,
Weird, I haven't heard of ANY kids dieing from malnutrition in Hamilton for a very long time. In fact the real impoverished Canadians are the ones who go to work everyday and give 42% of their paycheck to those who refuse to get out of the cycle of dependence. And as for the single mothers who can't give their kids the best clothes, laptops and fads, bless you for not walking into an abortuary, but keep in mind there are thousands of wholesome Canadian families out there that are on the waiting list to adopt.

[J.R.]

Even if you believe that you have the right to murder your unborn child, do you really want to spend your tax dollars so someone in another country can avoid the inconvenience of using the contraceptives that you bought them to opt for the more expensive luxury of murdering their unborn child?

[Peter Michael]

"Believing that Africans should have access to abortion is one thing, but subsidizing it with the money from taxpayers..."

I fully agree Ian. While it's nice of Canada to be a global citizen and provide aid, how about fixing the health care problems here before going out of country.

Charity begins at home.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

I really wish men would try to take a more compassionate stand on this, given that they cannot get pregnant and don't ever have to face these worries the way girls and women do.

And I don't think an 11-year-old girl who has just been raped by a group of soldiers had time to think about contraceptives.

[Ian]

Lala, You know what is really disgusting? Ripping a perfectly healthy fetus out of a womans uterus, limb by limb, so that a woman could lead a more convenient life.
This has nothing to do with the health of an african woman, because the majority of abortions have nothing to do with a woman if lives or dies, this has everything to do with population control. Welcome to 1984.

[Ian]

I was hoping more Canadians thought that the life of an African was worth more than that, but why should I...they don't give anymore value to unborn Canadians.

Believing that Africans should have access to abortion is one thing, but subsidizing it with the money from taxpayers who are adamantly opposed to it is undemocratic and unethical. Kudos to Harper.

[Michelle Hruschka]

The hypocracy of so many who think it is necessary to protect an unborn child, yet if the child was born and living with a single parent would live in dire poverty.

Never mind across the globe, just look in your own backyards. How many children are starving because social assistance rates are so low.

Where are all these people, Ill tell you where no where no sight. Nothing but sanctimious doubletalk.

[lalala]

I'd like to know how many people who support this decision have studied maternal health in any capacity, especially in developing countries. Few, if any I imagine.

To N, how can I expect it? Well, I expect governments to have to make unpopular decisions for the greater good.

I don't support the war, but my tax dollars go to that. I doubt there is a single person in this country who supports every single thing that tax dollars support.

[maw]

Anyone surprised by this is not paying attention. The Harper Conservatives have opposed abortion from Day 1, and always been up front about their position. Good for them. They should have a majority.

[Mike Russell]

Someone wrote it's good to see the conservatives stand firm on our core values. What absolute nonsense. Abortion is legal in Canada and government funded to boot. What core values are you talking about, it certainly isn't the values of the majority in this country.

I am pro choice, I don't like that women have to choose abortions for whatever reason, but it is their choice. I don't see how it is anyones business but the person involved in making the choice.

As for not funding abortions in third world countries, I think it is a bit hypocritical of us to allow it here but not in those countries. The government is supposed to represent the views and interests of all Canadians on the world stage, not just their own narrow views.

[crashdavis]

Anyone who supports the criminalization of abortion does not understand the concept of democracy in Canada.

It is fine to oppose abortion; it is fine to try to persuade others to oppose it. That is democracy at work.

When one wants to try to criminalize an act which has been held to be a fundamental personal right in Canada (the control over one's body), one crosses the line from persuasion to becoming a fascist. The tyranny of the majority over the minority when it comes to imposing your personal or religious beliefs upon others is something we fought two world wars to avoid; it is something that Canadian soldiers are ostensibly dying for to this day; it is, quite simply, wrong.

[Marguerite H]

I vote Conservative because I knew they opposed abortion. This is a big step forward. I look forward to being able to vote against killing the unborn in the next federal election campaign.

[Mandy]

Cheryl said:
What has happened to Canada? We are starting to become just like the U.S.A. There are certain countries where women are brutally raped on a daily basis and are forced to carry a child from that experience. What about the women who have no means of feeding and supporting their children? Who do we think we are to decide what she should do? I am not a person who supports abortion for every situation, but I believe it is a necessary evil at times. I do not think I will be voting conservative in the next election.

I completely agree. Please stop voting Conservative!

[Jean Auvigne]

Good for Canada. for me I am proud to be Canadian and to stand firm on our core values, and very proud that our leaders had the courage to take a stand on the abortion issue.

[Mark D]

People need to realize that the Harper Conservatives are or have been part of a growing trend towards conservatism that we haven't seen since the Victorian era. It's a movement that's gaining frightening strength in the States ever since the Bush Administration took over in 2000 and it is growing rapidly here in Canada, too. They hide behind the fluffy, feel-good moniker of "family values" but don't be fooled for a second. All the rights and freedoms we attained through the struggles of the 1960's and 1970's will be washed down the drain if these fascists ever get a majority. Be very careful how you vote in any upcoming elections. I for one do not want my country run by right-wing neo-cons. These people are very scary.

[Suzanne]

The Harper Conservatives have made no changes in their longstanding policy. They opposed abortion and if they get the chance, they'll make it illegal in Canada. Careful who you vote for.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

I agree with you, Cheryl.

[N]

Abortion is controversial - this poll itself shows that consensus is split down the middle. How can you expect everyone to be OK with giving their tax dollars towards something that they do not support or believe in, something that they believe is murder, even if you don't? How can abortionists/pro-choicers expect that? If you do expect that, than you support tyranny of the majority.

I love how one of the methods of "family planning" is "wipe out part of the population." "Family planning" is nothing but a softening euphemism.

[Tom Robertson]

I am sure they have the same policy for Canadian women and would apply it if they ever got the majority they crave.

[Peter Michael]

At least they've taken a stand on something for once instead of sitting on the fence.

[Cheryl]

What has happened to Canada? We are starting to become just like the U.S.A. There are certain countries where women are brutally raped on a daily basis and are forced to carry a child from that experience. What about the women who have no means of feeding and supporting their children? Who do we think we are to decide what she should do? I am not a person who supports abortion for every situation, but I believe it is a necessary evil at times. I do not think I will be voting conservative in the next election.

[lalala]

Harper's decision is absolutely disgusting. You cannot support maternal health without abortion.