Vancouver bans the butts

Smokers will have one last summer to take a puff in city parks.

The Vancouver Park Board has voted unanimously to ban smoking in more than 200 city parks and on all city beaches.

An education campaign will precede the September 1 ban, but critics are already questioning how the measure will be enforced.

The B.C. Civil Liberties Association says the move ignores the rights of smokers and – if cigarette butts are the issue, the city should enforce existing littering bylaws.

What do you think? Should Hamilton consider a similar ban? Or is this too far overboard?

Comments

[Peter Michael]

You have my support Tara. In fact, I even think you have a great idea when you said "before you know it you'll need a license to have kids". People wanting to procreate should be required to take a course as well as have other prerequisites; good character, education, job, family, etc.

Given the way some people raise their kids these days, it's a wonder this isn't in place already. Oh right, that's because it's probably a human right to procreate - as well as let the government subsidize raising them.

[Tara]

ok so i am gonna put my 2 cents in here, i am a smoker and i smoke for personal reasons. I don't smoke around my kids or in the house. First of all this law would not be enforcible not to mention it stomps on the rights of us as canadians, before you know it you'll need a license to have kids and have to go through special genetic testing to make sure your kids would be healthy.
people here are complaining about my second hand smoke well i don't drive and let me tell you your idling car's pollution will kill me before my cigarettes do, will you stop idling your car if it meant saving a life probably not, so why should i stop smoking.
i think the pollution from the factories is why everyone gets sick all the time, did you know Hamilton has the highest levels of lead in the air than any other city or country in the world. I would rather know that if i am to die from a cigarette at least i know what i died from and i would rather have my death at my own hands than at the hands of a garbage polluting car or factory, and thats my 2 cents.

[OLIVER]

I DON'T SMOKE IS MY CHOICE IF I GO TO A PLACE AND IS SMOKING IS MY CHOICE TO STAY OR NOT.WHEN CANADIANS START MAKING THER ON CHOICE HOW TO LIVE AND STANS UP TO DETECTATORS. NOBODY AS THE RITE TO TELL ANNIONE WAT TO DO.GOVERNMENT IS THERE JUST TO RUN BUSINES, NOT TO TELL PEOPLE WAT TO DO.SO CANADIANS STOP CRY AND STAND UP TO DETECTATORS.SMOKERS PAY MORE THEN ENGOUPH TAXES THEN COST ON HEALT FORTHEME

[Peter]

Let's call it the way it truly is. If you choose to smoke that is your right. However, I am sick and tired of smokers complaining that their rights are being violated. When I breathe next to someone who smokes, I am not polluting their air. When a smoker smokes and spews out second hand smoke, I am now being subjected to 40 cancer causing chemicals. Four thousand innocent non smokers die each year in Canada from complications due to second hand smoke. Once again, smokers just need to stop being so ignorant and self-serving. Smokers have no valid arguments when it comes to their rights being infringed upon. I hope every single smoker that still smokes in a car with children 16 years of age and under - I still see this every day - gets pulled over and fined. How dare they expose innocent children to that kind of filth and toxic chemical stew. You shouldn't be a parent in the first place if you engage in this type of activity. And pregnant women who smoke...what love and caring you show to your unborn child by feeding it cancerous agents and giving your unborn child a much much greater chance of having severe asthma and other respiratory problems. Smokers, for the most part, are rude, ignorant, and show a low level of respect for the rights of others. They continually make excuses as to why they should be able to smoke whenever and wherever they want. My greatest issue with smokers is the complete lack of regard for the environment due to the flicking of cigarette butts everywhere. Quite frankly, smokers are pigs. No matter where you go, smokers think the world is their ashtray. The other day I was about to bring my son to a public park to play on the swings and slides. To my dismay there were two parents smoking, and when they finished they 'butted out' in the sand where children play. Needless to say my son was very disappointed and is too young to understand why he wasn't able to play. The governement should make a new law and fine a smoker a good sum of money every time a butt is discarded onto the ground. Make them pay to play. The money we spend on health care for smokers far outweighs any amount of tax money received from the sale of cigarettes. make them pay $20 a pack so they can begin to pay for their health care. Smokers need a reality check. You have the right to smoke but not at the expense of other peoples health and environment. Stop being pigs and start to show respect.

[Turner]

Sue-Ellen, you're right about maturity and walking away. These things always get off topic and the moderators do nothing to keep them in check.

State your opinion about the topic on hand and leave it. Offer input or challenge others thoughts in a respectful way that's on topic.

I doubt this is a male/female or control issue or that you have anything to fear.

Those who accuse people of trolling are trolls themselves.

Don't feed the trolls.

[Free Mind]

Where can my family go if we want to enjoy a park without cigarette smoke?

Nowhere.

Anyone who wants to can come to any park in the city and blow smoke in my children's faces. I can ask them to stop, but they don't have to. It's disgusting and the city should do something about it.

[shell]

The USA started the smoking ban many years ago
- I went to California, I saw smokers and not 1 butt anywhere. The funny thing was - they had ash trays everywhere! That Is not such a new concept, the government should maybe spend the time on getting ashtrays Infront of storefronts, parks, public property - Instead of deciding where Canadian's can smoke.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

Thank you, Kathy. But it's not a question of life being too short...it's about keeping my self-esteem and dignity intact, a difficult goal for girls and women of all ages to do on this planet because of the control of men. It's about having the maturity to walk away when people are being allowed to behave like 11-year-olds. It's about not participating in forums where the blogger has repeatedly shown his unprofessionalism by printing nasty comments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand and everything to do with bashing an individual they have taken a dislike to.

Lastly, It's about the fear and anxiety you experience when a stranger refers to you as a "troll" and calls himself "Troll Killer". Oh sure it's all in good fun...but my personal safety is my first priority here.

[Kathy Hagan]

Sue-Ellen M
No one owns the blog, if you like to put in your opinion do so and ignore remarks from others. We all blog for different reasons and have our own opinions on daily news and world affairs. We are from all walks of life, so my humble advice is to continue to blog and relax, life is too short to worry what strangers may remark on your writing.

[Kathy Hagan]

well we can all beg to differ but to do so with courtesy is the thing. I once read that "courtesy is the hallmark of civilization"

[Sue-Ellen M.]

Okay, that's it. I'm out of here. Happy, Mike? Now you can take over and be in total control of the whole blog...every topic is yours. Have fun!! Goodbye, everybody! Take care.

[S Griffin]

I agree with Realistic on this one. It be nice to be able to walk on the beach or in the park without cigarettes. Not only the litter part of it, but also the smoke. :)

[Peter Michael]

Guys, if you want to stop the trolls you have to stop feeding them...

But speaking of wishful bans, and feeing the trolls, can we please, PLEASE outlaw CROCS in public?? Totally hideous and unnecessary!

[ed705]

Sue is right. Who would we shake our heads and laugh at if she were banned?

[Mike]

@Troll Killaer

At the risk of being one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29), I agree.

You must also realize that many of our bored fellow Hamiltonians have nothing better to do than share their own personal agendas.

If history on this blog has shown anything, more will follow, just watch. :)

[Sue-Ellen M.]

Say goodbye to the trolls...say goodbye to a very entertaining blog.

[Troll Killer]

Can we also please ban the trolls?

[Sue-Ellen M.]

And can we please, please, PLEASE ban PUBLIC SPITTING by BOTH sexes. Totally, absolutely disgusting. Totally, absolutely unnecessary.

[Realistic]

just by making a law 80% of the population will follow it. Thats without enforcement. Thats an 80% improvement over the current.
When i go to the beach and run my toes through the sand i always come up with a cigarette butt between my toes.
I applaud this and am sick of the belly aching smokers. You want people to get off your backs. Don't just flick your butt away when done. YOU ALL DO IT. This law isn't about the smoke. Its about that little yellow reminder you leave laying everywhere. Its disgusting.

[Nate Borges]

Why not just make cigarettes illegal. Cut to the chase already. I smoke, drink, listen to loud music and ocasionally have sex. We should ban those too. Better yet if we wrap everyone in bubble tape and all stay away from eachother by 10 feet, we can all stay healthy. Yippi!

[Realize]

I don't understand a person's concerning with another smoking in public. Those who are concerned, have you given any thought to the City that you are residing in, one with a high pollution level, and contaminates that will do more harm to you in the long run than breathing in second hand smoke from someone standing beside you outdoors. Come on people, wake up!

[sueT]

Gimme a break! who is gonna enforce this law? I already see people smoking at bus shelters & in front of hospitals. Im a non-smoker, but really..how stupid is this? whats next, no smoking in your own backyard?

[give me liberty]

Glad to see some people are not on board with this. Im not a smoker and I hate the smell but Im fully aware that whats coming out of those factories in the north end is 100% worse than any cigarette smoke I could get. Perhaps children's playgrounds should have this rule, not "parks" it's too general. Also glad to see that people have brought up the fact that the city doesn't even enforce its own bylaws. I had to fight like crazy with them to come pick up a whole bunch of illegally dumped items near my business. They didnt want anything to do with it and after three weeks I called back only to have them say, "We have no record of such a complaint being made." Oh well, one bag of garbage for all means increased revenue from selling landfill space so they can raise their wages again. Doesn't matter if the city is filled with illegally dumped garbage... Same with the cigarettes. We'll ban that and now everyone breathe deep and know your lungs are being damaged by lake-front industries that will close-up shop or require a bailout in the next three years.

[Michael Shelton]

I guess cigarette smoke is bad, but marijuana smoke is okay. Many state and municipal governments are considering legalizing pot. Seems that the world is turning upside down.
The Bible predicted this for the last days.

[Peter Michael]

"The water is federally and provincially regulated, municipal laws do not apply."

Interesting but who would want to step into the water in Hamilton?

On a side note, there are lots of other funny comments today. The Spec needs to implement a Like/Dislike or Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down feature like some of the other blogs have.

[lalala]

Re: trucks, cars, industrial pollution. They already put limits on those types of emissions and have no idling bylaws. It is a poor comparison.

[ed]

Just curious, were any illegal indian smoke shacks closed down, of course not. And governments know and admit the product is smuggled. They won't touch the natives and their smoke shacks because they fight back and stand up to them. Not like the rest of us, we roll over like scared chickens. Somewhere down the road, governments and police will be able to walk right into your house and charge you for opening a bottle of water. We'll still roll over like sheep, because all the problems of the world are all our fault. I think we all owe governments an apology, because being human is no excuse for stupidity. Someday when we're all as smart as mr mc'ginky, we may deserve a candy, but only if we bow and say please.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

P.S. Thank you, Kathy Hagan.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

When I smoked and there was no ashtray in site, I would butt my ciggie out, put the dead butt in my pack and throw it in the garbage when I got home. I HATE seeing smokers flicking their live butts all over the place.

[Mike Russell]

Another unenforceable feel good law.

Nobody has mentioned it so I will. If you are at a beach and you want to have a smoke just step into the water. The water is federally and provincially regulated, municipal laws do not apply.

[AB]

Before putting new by-laws and bans in place, how about enforcing the current ones?! I regularly see and endure people smoking in bus shelters and just outside entrances to public buildings where there are clearly posted signs indicated a ban or 9 metre limit. And why do people flicking cigarette butts on the ground or into planter not fined heftily for littering? This is at least as disgusting and unsightly, perhaps more so, than other litter.

[Jay]

lalala, You should bring some candy for your kids instead and they won't be picking those up. And, it's slightly healthier.. Actually, probably not.. hahaha... Just kidding.

[Elin]

You absolutely have the right to pollute your own body, but that right stops when you pollute mine or any other person who doesn't consent to ingesting the pollutants.
Air is a shared resource. Period. Smoke in a closed area, like your car, if you must. But not around anyone who chooses to breathe air free of tobacco pollutants. Our right to health outweights the right of smokers to choose toxics.

[Marguerite]

This is really getting carried away. I don't smoke however, there needs to be some freedom for smokers. What's next? is tobacco the next illegal substance? I would really like to know the people who all make up these rules how many are smokers themselves? Wow! get over yourselves and let the public have some freedom in their lives.

[New2urcity]

This idea made me laugh. How can you smell cigarette smoke over all the other stinky crap spewing out of the stacks along the water? Some days you can "chew" the pollution.

[Barbara]

As a smoker, I keep a safe distance from non-smokers but, if I can't have a puff or two on a vacated bench, Vancouver won't get my vacation dollars.

[Kathy Hagan]

I love the idea of a ban on smoking in Parks and on beaches I would go further and extend it to all outdoor areas. I hate inhaling second hand smoke when I am waiting to cross the road and am unfortunate to be downwind of the smoker. Also, I wish we had apartment buildings where smoking is banned. I think folk have the right to smoke in their suites but it should not pollute me as it does presently because it seeps through cupboards.
Whew, all that said I think it is unenforcable and therefore smoking by laws will remain the same and so education remains the option to decrease this addiction.
PS sue Ellen. ignore folk who think you should not ask after a absent blogger you have every right to.

[robbie]

It's not about the smoke anymore, it's has become about the dropping and flicking of butts. It doesn't matter where you go, our world has become an ashtray. If cigarette smokers would take more care of where they deposit their butts then I hardly doubt that there would be as much fuss about their disgusting habit.

[lalala]

I wish. I am tired of my children coughing from smoke or the little one picking up butts and trying to eat them. It wouldn't be necessary if people smoked away from others and didn't throw their butts on the ground. It is disgusting.

[jay]

I don't smoke, nor never have, and I don't really care about the smoker's plight. But what I do care about is stupid "nanny" laws. What next, I won't be able eat a Big Mac during a picnic in gage park, because fattening unhealthy foods are also one of the leading causes of early death and it causes other people problems through extra costs on the health care system? Ridiculous. Don't stand for this, people.

I think smoking should be banned around kids play parks, and in cars with kids and etc etc. But this is just ridiculous.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

I totally agree with that Michelle...and I agree that this is going too far, but it would be nice if they could prohibit smoking in small areas where people are in close proximity (eg. Gore Park...I don't know how many times I have gotten a lungful of cigarette or pot smoke on my way through) or outside the entrances to public buildings.

I smoked for most of my adult life...I enjoyed cigarettes immensely. So I do understand how smokers feel. But I finally quit smoking out of concern for the health of my heart and lungs. Why would I want to inhale these toxic clouds when I don't have to??

Large parks? No. Small parks that are also pedestrian walkways? Yes. Beaches? No ban, but perhaps 2 or 3 designated smoking areas.

[Jamie]

Too late Candy Bar Heiress.

The ban is crazy. I can understand fining for littering butts, but smoking now seems to be illegal anywhere. Ban them altogether or stop with the ridiculous money & time wasting laws.

[Dave]

What's next, your own front porch!

[Michelle Hruschka]

Well if they can ban smoking outside, then they can ban cars, trucks, other industrial pollution.

[BOB EDGAR]

Vancouver owes it to itself to ban smoking in parks, it's a beautiful city surrounded by lush mountains. Hamilton on the other hand is not a beautiful city. Any beauty of the escarpment has been forgotten by placing large pieces of steal on it's face and littering City of Hamilton construction pylons and barriers down it. This is a steel town and any positive changes in our health thru this form of legislation fall flat because of the huge towers spewing sh!t into the sky. Don't forget it. Every time you think to join our city council buffoons in their pathetic attempt to make people healthy, remember that they're the ones crying when the mills close down. Don't forget it.

[Sue-Ellen M.]

At the risk of again being accused of writing a post full of nonsense and b.s. and of being involved in love affairs with strangers when all I did was express a concern about someone's absence, (you know who you are), I think this would be too difficult to enforce in Hamilton.

[stevee]

OK Is any one but me going to ask why? I do'nt smoke any more and im all for not being in the midst of cigerette smoke,But beahes and parks are outside and are suppose to be places of comfort.The saying goes live life to the fullest,I dont think everyones rights here are being considered.

[S Griffin]

I like this idea. Less litter in parks and on beaches and less cigarette smoke to be exposed to.

[Mark]

More "nanny" laws?? Geez! When are the governments going to stop sticking their noses into everything we do in society....and what "squeaky wheel" got this nonsense started? I was 100% against banning smoking in open air establishments, such as stadiums and patios - and I don't even smoke - but this is going too far. What's next, attaching some kind of pipe on all of our chimneys so we can collect furnace exhaust and transport it to the middle of the lake before allowing it to blow free? (Now there's a Darwinian image to scare the heck out of you!) Just ridiculous....which means Hamilton will most likely adopt it anyway!

[Debora]

I would really love it if smoking was banned on all of our stairs. I used to do the Wentworth stairs all the time for exercise and it always took my breath away to have to pass a "filthy smoker". I now do the Chedoke Stairs, and it's not too bad, so far have only encountered a few smokers. But, it's a few too many and I don't want to inhale that filth when I'm trying to be healthy and workout. Also I see alot more children doing the stairs for exercise and they shouldn't have to inhale second hand smoke!

[Peter Michael]

Why don't we just ban cigarettes and smoking all together in this country?

Those who smoke will finally have a reason to quit (other than health issues) and everyone else doesn't have to breathe in smoke anymore.

Oh wait, it's too big of a money maker for the goverment coffers...