Wage freeze for public sector

In an effort to reduce the provincial deficit, the McGuinty government is preparing to announce a wage freeze for unionized public sector workers. (Non-union workers already have their wages frozen.) What do you think?

Comments

[A. deVries]

My wages as a public sector employee are your profits.

Feel free to apply for a public sector job people if you'd like. And no, access to them is no more controlled than the private sector, if anything, the access is more open due to clear education criteria etc. that are frequently questioned in competition grievances.

Finally it may be argued that the Public Sector is never hit during recessions, when the recession ends is when this sector gets hit. It happened in the mid 80, s, early 90's and it will happen again after all of the whinging by the corporate money grubbers. I'll talk wage freeze only after the corporate tax break is rescinded.

[give me liberty]

"Ha ha Kev King - You jealous much? Sounds like you need a better job. And education. Typical Hamiltonian response."

Perhaps you should've said he needs a better family that can get him a government job. That's how it works right? You honestly think an education matters in scoring one of these high paying jobs? Most cops don't even have a degree in phys ed. and make $50 an hour so I'd agree with Kevv on this one pal. Brains and experience don't go as far as as organized criminal unions.

[jordan retro 1]

If you would convince others, you seem open to conviction yourself. What do you think?

[shoog]

Ha ha Kev King - You jealous much? Sounds like you need a better job. And education. Typical Hamiltonian response.

[jerry H.]

Boo-hoo. If the public sector's wages are frozen, we'll see inflation stall or greatly slow. If the public sector's wages were frozen for five years, the private sector's wages STILL might not even reach par. Don't blame the government because if you're a public employee you'd only be blaming yourself. It's like trying to say that Canada Post is an independent private company, you're not fooling the taxpayers.

[uncletom]

Wage freeze? Wage freeze...just get rid of em! Especially the bloated overpaid slugs in the non-union jobs. These elitist doctors, engineers, scientists and lawyers should get booted out on their keesters and let the pivate sector step in.

[Peter Michael]

The other thing to remember is that wage freezing is the current buzzword.

I have friends who work in the private sector, services which are doing well and didn't take any hit in the recession (ie law firms, mobile services) yet people were still laid off or let go.

The employers excuse? The recession. The reality? Easy wait to cut excess employees and increase profit.

The government better be tread carefully, as someone mentioned, the teachers and police own McGuinty and they won't be happy. Hell, who's happy with all the ways McGuinty as screwed the people of Ontario.

[S. Bell]

If the Liberals can freeze the cost of EVERYTHING that we buy and all of our household bills...
P. Trudeau already tried something like this. Did it work? When A. Hitler printed extra money did it help the German economy?
Anytime a government tinkers where they shouldn't, it creates distortion and similar to when you leave the Dentists office, once the freezing is gone, there is pain. In the case of Public Sector unions, they will want to play catch-up in a big way when a wage freeze is lifted. The Political Pendulum is never in one place very long. Will the Liberals be re-elected? Meanwhile, all business leaders cherish growth and price increases that contribute to inflation. Big Business runs Government, contributes to Election Campaigns and hires outgoing Politicians who provide handshaking opportunities, referrals etc., and that my friend, is the most vicious circle. It's the one that allows multinational corporations to commit unspeakable acts in less developed countries and then promote themselves in "Greenwashing TV ads" in the good old Ontario living room. Will we ever achieve a sustainable economy?

[Michelle Hruschka]

In reading the many comments, one can see the division in our society between workers. This must change, if we are going to affectively change the upcoming austerity measures that will affect all in our society.

As always working as a private sector employee, I have learned that I have no protection, nor do I have rights and only as a collective can we be a formidable voice.

People forget that it was the working people who stood and fought together that brought us many thngs we tend to take for granted and we are now losing.

We must recreate the labour movement, it must go back to its roots, to encompass all workers in their struggle for fairness, equality and justice in the workplace.

[myopinion]

It's incredible to see how many people discredit public sector workers. Magiccally a person is hired in a level of government and they become a bloated, overpaid slug. You should ask yoursef if you would become that kind of person if you where hired in a gov't agency? I don't think so, because regardless of where you work, you're either a lazy slug or not. Public sector workers, work just as hard as private sector workers. I've worked both in the privates for 12 years and as a public servant for 8. The private sector is driven by profits and margins. They are not responsible to anyone but the bottom line. One day your an intergral part of the team, and the next day you're gone because the CEO needs to pad the numbers for his big bonus. Public sector workers are responsible for the taxpayer, and because of this they have to make sure they dot every 'i' and cross every 't', or else the repercussions would be severe.

[kevv]

when the government can spend 1 billion on security for 100 vip's for a week who cares about the amount we get ,its peanuts to the big guys
conrad just got a out of jail free card for 100 million in back taxes ,life is great for the kings and queens

[Peter Swire, CMA]

As Ontarians, we have a number tough questions before us and the answers are not easy. We are running a substantial deficit and we are slowly pulling out of it. Our political leaders have asked to freeze salaries of our civil servants so that the burden of the added debt caused by the deficits does not materially affect our taxes and the recovery. This is a laudible objective.

It is true that the civil servants were left relatively untouched by the credit crunch. They do not know the pain of the auto or steel industry bloodletting. However, their income levels did mitigate the negative impacts of the recession.

What can responsible governments and citizens alike ask at this time?

Firstly, a salary freeze is a good first step.

A hiring freeze for all government and government funded agencies should be imposed as well.

All provincial government consulting contracts should be cancelled as well as all provincial government advertising.

The hiring of retired teachers for coverage should be stopped.

A blue ribbon volunteer commission should look into which services are needed and the best level of government to do the task.

Look into making things more efficient. If you add 3/10ths of a cent to the price of gas, we eliminate the annual birthday ritual of getting a renewal sticker. Consolidate the health card, licences for fishing, driving and so on into one high tech card thus eliminating several photo taking tasks.

Amend the laws for tax arrears that once 90 days has past, the property goes up for sale. A one time recovery could save Hamilton and other cities and towns perhaps a billion dollars!

[Dave]

Public sector workers work just like anyone else. They are working people! Why punish those workers who are supporting families and the economy just like any other employee of any other company, office, restaurant or retail store. Its not us the working people's fault that there is a deficit. OPS workers who serve the public are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to salaries. Upper management doesn't think of that I bet.

[Brad C]

@ Stormin Norman
LOL ... Interest rates are up? Heck, I got my mortage when it was double digits and was able to pay, how about you ... sigh Perhaps a few less expensive toys under the tree at christmas and maybe one or two less vacations a year to Las Vegas are in order. I camped for years instead of travelling as that was all I could afford with my private sector income. Only now after years of hard saving, looking way back when to the future of now can I afford to be a bit more extravagent. Some people have had it too good for too long. How do people on a fixed income handle things like new taxes, or people on a minimum wage? They tighten their belts, and in some cases need a hand up to maintain their dignity. The PSU's doesn't give a darn about dignity. This whole topic just angers me folks ... Enough said.

[Brad C]

Many "private sector" companies have controlled their costs through outsourcing of services. If you don't like the value for the dollar then you don't renew the contract with a particular vendor. I am beginning to feel that the municipal, provincial and federal governments should seriously look into this on a large scale. The public sector jobs that would be eliminated would free up a talented labour pool for these outsourcing companies to hire from. If a current public sector employee feels they are doing their job well now, then they shouldn't have a problem getting a job in the private sector. Sure, you may have 25 years or so in with your public sector union job now, but if you're good enough, you should be able to negotiate with your new employer based on your qualifications shouldn't you? The private sector utilizes these companies all the time when they reduce their overhead costs and many of the previous employees are hired by the outsorced vendor to continue servicing the private sector company, pretty much in a business as usual mode. Also, if you still want to be in the union, then when you get your new job, then speak to your peers and see if you want to organize yourselves again then you can get just what you want, right? Good Luck out there in the private sector, where you can't always stand behind the union shield to get what you want.

[craig duvall]

LETS WAKE_UP, VOTE4 IMPEACHMENT LAWS,i was once i guess a middle class person, now i am, guess not a poor person, but, holding my own, just paying the bills, working to live, living to work.Ask is it worth it, really.Why, are we allowing the people we vote 4, to lie to us with out justification, without punnishment.Hmmm, maybe a third tier justice system,Something to think about,NO?????

[Ralph Victor Watson]

Long overdue. I don't really believe this will slow the union-class one bit. Even if we hold out on them, they'll just end up doing what the trash collectors in Toronto did: Physically assaulting people who attempted to bring in their own garbage to the dump. The police will let them just like in Toronto... They're union goons too after all.

[ed]

The teachers and cops own Mr Ginky, you're not going to see any changes there. Although teachers maybe next to carry batons.

[John Q]

This is a typical government move to pit the private sector against the workers in the public sector. The problem is...the majority of public sector jobs are just average people working for an average wage. It's a total misconception that just because someone is a public servant they have a high paying job with loads of benefits. Wrong on both accounts.

When Mike Harris pulled this stunt, he effectively stripped almost half the workforce of the public service and essentially caused Walkerton. And as for the "Unions"? Hah!! When the Tories "divested " me of my job my Union wasn't even at the bargaining table because it wasn't ME that was being divested...but the job I was doing. And that job belonged to the government.

So...the government (whoever is in power) will just change the rules to suit them and will do whatever it takes to secure another term in office.

Little do people know that after Mike Harris saved the government of Ontario money by removing thousands of employees fromit's coffers, a mere 6 months later the DM's and ADM's (Deputy Ministers and Assistant Deputy Ministers of all the Ministries) voted themselves a hefty pay raise.

[Unnamed....]

I work in the private sector and haven't had a pay raise in 5 years so welcome to the REAL WORLD.....

[Unnamed....]

Maybe the government needs to look at how many people in the public sector actually work to earn the ridiculous wages they earn including the padded pension plan..... GET RID OF SOME OF THE DEADWOOD AS WELL.....

[Dr. Shart]

@kate Did you even read what you wrote?? So if your wage is frozen, you will spend less than what you are now at your current wage which in fact would be the wage if frozen?

I don't think anyone would consider you "bums" with the mighty wages you make, maybe just slugs to emulate the pace you operate.

Lastly, you admit that yes, public sector workers are some what over paid.

Tax dollars hard at work!

[v]

I'm in civil engineering. As a sudent, I worked for three different municipalities and I know what the wages are like. I now work for a private firm and make just above market average for my position and experience. If I went back to the public sector, I could tack on approximately 10% more per year on my wages to do the same work (and to less exacting standards).
I don't complain about making less than my public-sector counterparts because I love what I do. But I certainly am not going to provide any sympathy if public sector wages are frozen.

[We are all from Africa]

Instead of freezing wages why not freeze the never ending free ride for natives? They want to be treated as equal according to Grand Chief Morris Swan-Shannacappo, so let's do it! Pay some taxes, pay for your education, pay for the services that you continuously take advantage of. Seriously, they have the highest rate of incarceration in the country because they are used to getting everything for FREE. Lowest education baffles me considering they are given a free ride to any college or university. Seems to me the majority do not want to contribute to a productive society, just reap the benefits!

[nate borges]

Jealous? probably a bit.
The fact is that public sector employees have it very well compared to the private. And good for you. But seriously I worked closely with certain areas of the public sector. What a joke as far as productivity goes. If they could get five people to do the work of one - they will.
I think the public sector jobs should be out sourced where bottom line and productivity counts. What a burdon off the shoulders of the tax payers that would be. Might actually accomplish work being done.

[Robbie]

I'm all for a reduction in services. Why don't we start by eliminating some of the useless ministries:
Aboriginal Affairs
Francophone Affairs
Health Promotion
Senior's Secretariat
Women's Directorate
I'm sure there are other ministries and areas within all ministries that could be reduced.

[jeanette mcmanus]

yeah, life is a bitch, then you die!this country is getting more like the communist regime countries where the leaders for years have no regards for thier down trodden populace( personaly i think nearly all politicians are handed a handbook on how to be arrogant to the poor working stiff, ....i mean where do you write to to put in a complaint?...and if you do the letter goes in the bin) it would be a great idea to put some of the dinners in a container and travel around to different parts of the poorer areas when you greedy lot of chancers are handing out your vote-for- me pamphlets.

[Kate]

Man, what a lot of jealous people. Public sector workers are not overpaid, for the most part. We work as hard as anyone, and we're not a bunch of lazy bums like most of you think. And we spend money, but less when our pay is frozen. If you think that won't have a negative impact on the economy you are crazy.

[Brad C]

As far as wage freezes go, I'm in a professional role in a large private sector company that has both salary and union employees. The salary employees have had to accept a wage freeze for the past two years, pending an upturn in the economy. It is a hard pill to swallow, but to keep within your budget constraints due to reduced revenues, you've got to accept it in order to keep your business afloat. As far as the public sector union and non-union employees, buck up and accept what you've got now and don't be greedy during these economic times. We all have to pay to get our economy moving forward again. If the unions strike, it'll be for greed, not to help out the economic recovery. Oh yes, they'll argue that the strikes are necessary for maintaining the quality of service that their members deliver to the public, but in reality, it's just the union leadership trying to protect their members and not the consumers as a whole. Buck up and accept a freeze, if that's the worst then that's pretty fortunate during these trying times. I'm not anti-union, heck I used to be on the executive board at the provincial level of a large union and know that the union is committed to protecting its' own as much as possible. This "gesture" of accepting a freeze without striking would go a long way in getting the much needed public on your side.

[Kev King]

i would love to see the teachers and cops wages frozen, but as you know they settled their contracts last year,
strange mcstinky waited till these public workers got their huge pay increase before the shite hit the fan for these overpriced underworked units.
remember they can retire in 25 years and will get around 50 grand of taxpayers money for another 25 years and still can work part time in their old position if they fill cash stapped when their 50 years old.
with summers off of course

[Donald J. Lester]

Correction...I screw up...:)

[Donald J. Lester]

Mandy, I think you should pay more attention to what I wrote...I said "unionized public sector workers." as posted by the Spec."...the McGuinty government is preparing to announce a wage freeze for unionized public sector workers."

[ed]

Lets see, they raise interest rates, raise taxes, raise property taxes, dream up new taxes, pay themselves healthy wages and benefits with unheard of pensions, pay their buddies and ceo's millions of dollars no matter what the performance...and they want to freeze our wages..I think I'm catching on.

[Chris]

How about all politicians taking a wage freeeze...better yet a cut back....let's see them live off 50-70,000 per year. They have it too good.

Now that they have "frozen" public sector wages how about a freeze to new taxes/fees. Plus a spending freeze and cutbacks on that too.

It is always the middle class that have to deal with the brunt of tax increases...we are now the working poor.

WE need changes unfortunately THEY are all the same regardless of political stripe.

[Adrian Chong]

In the private sector people do not get wage freezes. They get laid off. I think having one's wages frozen is much better than being laid off.
Those who do not like their wages frozen can always go looking for a better paying job elsewhere.

[Peter Michael]

Well put S. Bell, something many haven't thought about. While many public sector workers are overpaid (just look at the Sunshine list from the last few years) the unions that ensure their membership continue to get raises does create pressure for non-union shops to increase wages.

It's a vicious cycle but that's the way it's worked for years; union raises public sector salaries, private sector has to increase salaries, private sector than has to increase prices to cover salaries and repeat.

Guess that's pretty much how inflation started; all of our cumulative greed to always have and want more...

[S.Bell]

So far lot's of valid arguments on both sides. Those in favor of freezing wages should understand that it would create pressure for non-union workplaces to follow suit and with historical inflation running somewhere around 3% averaged over the past 35 years, you have just voted for a pay cut by way of your own wages eroding over time, by how much? Yes, you are correct if you said 3% per year and if you live to be a ripe old age your savings may allow you the option of affording cat food for dinner. No, freezing wages is not a good idea and if in doubt, check your History books to find out why. We Ontarians & Canadians do have lot's of public sector workers amongst us and this fact has helped stabilize our economy and foster our present lead on the global economic stage.

[ernest]

try the open hearth @ stelco and be a "sleepy slug".try trucking for 25 years being a "sleepy slug".i have!I get to be a public service worker now,the second i be a "sleepy slug"The Shite hits the fan.I have many more words for you "sleepy slug"...but you woulden't get to read em.

[Virginia]

Management gave themselves 15% and 20% raises before 'freezing' their wage. They still get bonuses and expenses covered, free parking, blackberries, etc. I'm clerical in the $30,000 range. I don't get bonuses or anything. I'm a single mom. They don't replace union positions as people leave - the work on my desk is astonishing and I'm working hard. I can't keep up. None of us can. I'm exhausted. The Rae days really hurt. A wage freeze will also really hurt. (I just got my phone bill with the HST. I can't imagine what the power bill will be like.) I'm not a fat cat and I'm not lazy.

[Mandy]

@Donald J Lester

You are gravely misinformed. Public sector workers are not the lowest paid and they do not have the least control over job security. A simple Google search brought up the sites below, and I'm sure a more intense search would give you all the information you need before making such misinformed comments.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/number-of-highly-paid-public-workers-climbs-in-ontario/article1518986/

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/highest+paid+public+sector+employees+More+than+2000+earn+plus+annually/3172773/story.html

[Sandra]

I work for the public sector, and I fully encourage this wage freeze. I've been out of college for less than a year, and I already make as much per hour as my dad - and he has been in the trades for 25 years. I'm sure not every public sector job is like mine, but I've seen enough government offices to know when people are being paid too much to do too little. I would gladly take a pay cut if it means helping the provincial deficit. My brother has been laid off for almost a year, while I sit in my office and watch 3 or 4 people do the work that could easily be accomplished by 1 person.

As happy as I am with my job and my wage, I feel bad for my friends who are working at Shopper's Drug Mart and Tim Horton's. They have worked just as hard as me, and they do a hell of a lot more work for a hell of a lot less pay.

[J]

It's about time...why did he wait so long! Now have them work a full 40 hour wee.

[wyatt mathers]

It's funny to listen to this being discussed as if it was a matter of choice or policy. It's over folks; the constant rise in public service costs and salaries are part of a bygone era, although I'm sure public employees will keep yelping. Governments can barely afford to keep the lights on and yet debt keeps increasing.
Check out Windsor - a so-called labour town - that has just privatized garbage pickup and parking meter service.
It isn't about being nice anymore.

[Mark]

"pick on those who can least defend themselves"????
Mr. Lester, are you kidding? Unions go on strike EVERY YEAR, whether it be CUPE, or the Teachers or any of the other groups who live in their own dream-world. I worked as a salaried employee at Stelco for 30 years, and you know who took the hit for every wage or benefit increase the unions "fought" for??? ME! Not Stelco, not the slug sleeping on nightshift making $30 to $40 bucks an hour, but ME! I lost benefits, holidays, and my wages were frozen for up to 10 years during the '90's and early 2000's, so CRY ME A RIVER, too! Yeah, McStupid couldn't manage a euchre game, but he's not the one who continually threatens to close schools, bus services, mail delivery, policing, and any number of other public services that can be ransomed for higher wages and perks. The "public service" unions, which by their name alone are a joke, need to re-enter the REAL WORLD like the rest of us. As far as McStupid goes, we'll take care of his worthless backside in the next election!

[Donald J. Lester]

"McGuinty government is preparing to announce a wage freeze for unionized public sector workers.

It's ok to pick on the "unionized public sector workers." who are the lowest paid and have the least control over job security...
If McGuinty wants to do the right thing he would do so across the board union and non union...but fairness does not seem to be on his agenda...pick on those who can least defend themselves...It's McGuinty's nature...sneaky, deviant and a bully...

[Steve Sheen]

I think we all deserve a raise.

[Mike Russell]

Let the whining begin. These hard done by public sector employees will be creating new rivers and streams with all the tears they will be shedding.

I work in the real world, I haven't had a raise for 2 years. My bonuses have been cut and benefits clawed back all in the name of austerity. The company I work for has continued to be profitable through this whole economic downturn and yet I have to do without.

Why shouldn't public sector workers have to suck it up as well. I would go further if I was the government. I would cut wages 25%, I would cut benefits to something comparible to the private sector and I would cut the whole public sector by 20-30%. Job reductions could be done through attrition, there is no need to layoff or fire people and wage reductions could be fazed in over a few years.

If public sector employees don't like it they can quit. I am sure with all the highly sought after skills they have they won't have any problem finding comparable employment.

[Peter Michael]

Sounds fine to me but this should be done across all jobs in Canada, not just public sector. And to ensure it won't affect anyone negatively, freeze price increases on all utilities and other necessities of life.

[nate borges]

Evceryone is complaining about taxes even public sector employees? Our taxes are so high because of unions like CUPE.
No one is going to feel sorry for the public sector employees.
Case in point - average sally for non-unionized employee 27,452
average sallery for public employee 48,780 plus benifits and pension
all on my taxes
your welcome now stop crying

[Jay]

In response to S. Norman. Actually, the rest of us DID feel what it was like when WE took cuts and or lost our jobs during the recession, while the public sector bathed in job security and great (in my opinion, "too" great) pay schemes. So, you know what.... Now it's their turn. The public sector can "walk in our shoes" for a mile. What comes around goes around. We've all been through it. As for complaining that the public sector is being "beat up on".. I think their union has done enough bullying of tax payers over the years that I don't really care if they feel beaten up on. *I* felt beaten on during all of those strikes and shakedowns over the years.

[Larry]

The government mis-managed our economy and the public sector is now going to pay for their incompetence; what's that all about. The vast majority of public sector workers are middle class and working hard to make ends meet just like those in the private sector. McGuilty will have you believe he is freezing his "own peoples" wages. When you make the money he does, it's not a concern. When you're in the 30g range it's far more difficult. Bob Rae did the same thing with "Rae Days" back in the 80's. And Harris??? I'm getting a rash just thinking of the mess he created. Their lack of foresight is all born by the middle class public sector. Remember these things when you vote. We all will lose with the HST and now a freeze to worker's wages will make things particularly hard. The only way out is to replace McGuilty. Horvath gets my vote.

[john magnan]

Why didn't they freeze their own wages before they gave themselves that big fat 15% pay raise.is that where our HST money is going?

[Ken]

It seems the public sector is the only sector that has not been hurt by this current economy. Perhaps some layoffs would be more appropriate. With less people working, the services that government provides gets more expensive to those that are still working. Cutting government expenses is a good way to help reduce rising debt.

[Aly]

Stormin, we do. At least in my circle, we are stuck with salaries not changing but the cost of everything going up. Believe me, we know what it's like, just as an average person.

[nate borges]

The public sector employees are well compensated. The are well above the average wage of employed ontario people. After all their wages come from taxes and seemingly no bottom to the wallet. Their output doesnt match the compensated amount either.
a wage freeze is long over due.
and stormin norman - maybe the public sector employees need to walk a mile in the shoes of regular folk who dont have a union or work as public employees. Public employees have it good by any measure.

[Stormin norman]

Beating up on the public sector is too easy. The rest of us need to think what it would be like to have our pay frozen when interest rates are up and new taxes are reducing the paycheck. Walk a mile in their shoes,