East is East and West is East?

The provincial and federal governments will only fund a stadium at the east mountain, the Spectator has learned. According to Councillor Brad Clark, Mayor Fred Eisenberger and TiCats president Scott Mitchell received a call from the office of MPP Sophia Aggelonitis this morning informing them that both the province and Feds were pulling their funding from west harbour. What is your reaction?

Comments

[Gary]

Eisenberger is not a Leader. In fact it's a big surprise he is still in power. Failure, Whimp, No Balls or Spine or any form of Intelligence come to mind when his name is mentioned. Please Resign you Idiot!!

[Kevin]

My preferred site for the Pan Am games is anywhere the ticats agree to play, Lets face it don't matter where they build bottom line if they not taxing us for that it will be for something else , WH is to small for what ticats need and if the city would have picked another location that made everyone happy we would not be posting here today, Don't want to lose ticats or pan am and would like to see WH cleaned up and something useful put there for everyone not just sports fans, City hall can make this work if they cared to do so ,

[Jackson]

My preferred site for the Pan Am stadium is the WH. If the province ,federal government and the Cats would pay the total cost of a 30,000 stadium then lets build on the EM. Monies from the Future Fund could then be used for WH cleanup and development.

[Ed2]

I am torn between the two locations.

Downtown is great but by building an open air stadium it is not a saleable item for year round use, such as a major convention or gathering. Skydome was sold out to a children's reading series and it would not happen in a dedicated open air setting.

The mountain site is great because of access by so many modes of travel and so close to the airport.

While we have a recession there are still millions of people with billions in disposable income who travel in a whim to a venue and spend pure cash. Business jets still fly,yachts still travel, sailboats sail the world, and cruise ship are packed.

Build a multi-functional destination site at the same time or in the same facility because relying on one tenant to keep the facility afloat is far too risky for public money.

[Hamilton34]

Hey Everyone,

I tried my best to make the Pan Am situation into a song by recreating Kung Fu Fighting, Hope you all like it.

Everybody was Pan-Am fighting
Those cats left fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit frightning
But they left with expert timing

They were little mayor fred and funky town councill
They were voting the harbour up and they were bringin bob down
It's an ancient Political art and every councillor knew their part
From a feint into a slip, Bob was kicking from the hip

Everybody was Pan-Am fighting
Those cats left fast as lightning

In fact it was a little bit frightning
But they left with expert timing

There was funky Mayor Fred and little Bobby Young
He said its not about what you want, lets get it on
We took a vote and made a stand, started swinging with the hand
The voted motion made Bob flip, now the teams goin on a trip

Everybody was Pan-Am fighting
Those cats left fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit frightning
But they left with expert timing

[Peter Michael]

Kayak, you're one of the many that just don't get it. Nobody has won, we've all lost. If the stadium is built at the west harbour there will be no tenant to use it after the PanAm games.

If (when?) the Ticats leave, Hamilton will be an even bigger laughing stock than it already is. How will anyone take Hamilton serious if we can't even keep a CFL franchise let alone get a hockey team for which an arena was built over 20 years ago.

[Gianna]

Is everyone in Hamilton slow???? Do you people not realize that without the Tiger Cats staying in Hamilton that the people in Hamilton who own homes will have to pay for the $62 million that the city is short for their West Harbour pipe dream???? Our own mayor wants to kick people out of their homes & close business in the West Harbour location to put up a stadium that he is $62 million short for and after the pan am games will have no use for!!!! Has everyone lost their mind to say let the ti cats leave the city?!?!?! They are helping by contributing towards these games and towards a stadium. Shame on the mayor to force people out of the West Harbour when there is an empty field ready to have a stadium built. An area that is easier to build at, that would be approved because it has an "anchor tenant" and there are so many exits towards highways and ways away after a game!!! If I want to buy something I don't tell people in my family to vote on it when I only have half of the money....how stupid are the politicians we pay to vote on something they have no chance of paying for???? I FORSEE A CITY WITH NO CFL TEAM (SAD CONSIDERING THEY'VE BEEN AROUND FOR 130 YEARS) AND A CITY WHO HAD A CHANCE TO GET THE PAN AM GAMES BUT LOST THEM BECAUSE THE POLITICIANS WHO LEAD THIS CITY ARE MORONS. TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE OR HAD HOPES FOR A NHL TEAM.....I THINK THIS WHOLE FIASCO THAT IS TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW IS EXACTLY WHY WE'D NEVER GET A TEAM.....CAUSE OUR CITY POLITICIANS CAN'T HANDLE IT!!!!

[Kayak]

Wow, One sec while I put on my life jacket, because i am kayaking through river of tears streaming from the east mountain/ tiger cat supporters. You lost and we won. let the tiger cats leave and take the east mountain supporters with them.

[jen]

I think the ticat camp is acting like a bunch of 5-year-olds. They're a bunch of jocks, not city planners and should not be given the power to dictate the outcome of planning issues.
It's about what's good for the city not what's good for the ticats.

[William]

Fast Freddie and his band of knucklheads made a huge mistake.

[David Nielsen]

I think Bob Young is right on this one. The city's plan is for a stadium in a cramped section of the city with no parking and no hope of any future parking. I would like to see a new home for the TiCats on the mountain - east end. There are a number of old limestone quarries that could house a huge below-grade stadium with plenty of room for parking.

[Lynda]

So the Cats are threatening to run away from home?

Let 'em.

They're more than old enough to be paying their own way.

Or.

If they'd like to show a little maturity and lovalty for all taxpayer-parent-Hamiltonians have done for them, they could back up the truck, eat a little crow, and play hard at Ivor Wynne, while more critical issues receive much-needed attention.

[Peter Michael]

"A stadium downtown WILL revitalize the downtown core."

Nothing will revitalize the downtown core except maybe an NHL hockey team that has 40+ home games a season. That will bring business and people to the core, no stadium will do that.

"Do the sports fans in Hamilton really want a stadium in the middle of nowhere?"

We already do, hence it's time for a new one in a location that's accessible and doesn't promote Hamilton for the dump most people think it is.

[Dave]

On second thought, is there a clean kind of politics?

[Dave]

A stadium downtown WILL revitalize the downtown core. Hamilton is not an art town and that's why Art Gallery hasn't had an impact. Hamilton IS a football town. That being said, don't think that if you build this stadium in the middle of nowhere that the Tiger Cats will stay in this town. Plan for the Tiger Cats leaving. Do the sports fans in Hamilton really want a stadium in the middle of nowhere? Wouldn't it be better , after a event at this new venue, if people took a walk downtown to some of the local bars or restaurants? It's not like there's no parking because there's plenty outside Copps, and it's never busy while football games are on. If you're worried about walking for 10 minutes, maybe you should think about trying to get out of a parking lot of 5000 cars or however many lots there will be. At least downtown there's mass transit going through mid to high density housing, where most Tiger Cats sports fans already live. It's too bad that yet another city will bow to private concerns. I'm a tax payer, and I'm sure there are plenty more who are saddened by the whole thing. What a chance to replace an unsightly part of town into something fantastic. Isn't that the definition of urban renewal? I've said it before and I'll say it again, poor Hamilton. Dirty politics hits again, hope Bob Young his happy with himself.

[Lawnsnsnow]

Let me first say I don't support the WH or the EM. We all know there are sites better suited to build a stadium. Too bad the people who are in control of this debacle can't see past their own EGO's to admit they are wrong.
Stadiums DO NOT revitalize Downtown cores! As has been said here already we have a great arena Downtown, a wonderful Art Gallery & a Convention Centre. Have they revitalized the core? If they did we wouldn't be having this issue now.
People take your hearts out of this debate. Call it what you want it's all about business and making money. Why would a business want to invest in a money losing project? So why is the city pushing so hard to LOSE OUR TAX DOLLARS?
I see everybody is asking for Mr. Young to put up his own money, and he should if he wants the stadium on the EM. In the same token all these so call Business people who want to and argue that the WH is the best place, why don't you ask them to put their money where there mouth are? The only ones losing here will be us the tax payers for either site. Regardless of how much money Mr. Young is offering to put in, he is at least offered to add to the project to move it to the EM. Make no mistakes, he's in it to make money! Let's see all these WH business supports offer up their money to help build that site and build the infrastructure to handle the masses of people that the WH site will see.
Seriously people, the roads in and around the WH site can't handle the little traffic it gets now. Try, just try to image with 20,000+ more people trying to get out of there.
The WH site should be developed with an Amphitheatre and a more park like setting, with a new residential housing to fit in with the what the City has already done in the revitalization it has already done. Mayor we have done an amazing job at Pier Four, please continue with this types of projects in this area.
Clean up the WH, don't put in another monster building which will bring crowds, garbage and lots of noise to a quite area..

[wachin]

Use Ivor Wynne and fix it up for the Ti-Cats. If Bob's problem is money. Let him figure out how to make it with what is already here.

We are using the Ti-Cats as a threat and combining that to the Pan Am Games. We do not need the games here. Period.

If we do not have the space or spaces for the Pan events, we can't host it.

We are being dragged into two topics by Young threatening to take the Cat's away.

What happened to home town football?

Untangle the web of lies, by looking at the situation for what it is - a business deal Young wants to make so he can earn more money.

[steve sheen]

I was shocked the governments pulled the rug right from under the west harbour decision.

[ed]

Hey, sorry about Bob's comments. He really is an insensitive person.

Those of us in the WH have had enough of his verbal faux pas.

Did I tell ya about the one where he told WH residents that we had to 'take it' for the city of Hamilton even if our homes were on the slate to be gone? Did I?

That was in January or February of this year....and then, miraculously, he back flipped and said Nooooooooooooooooo to WH stadium.

Guess he's back on his PRO WH stance now....he needs to leave council since he can't make up his mind.

Pathetic.

[Shawn]

Guys,

I don't know Bob Bratina from Adam but when he made the comment about walking 700 metres at the rally I'm absolutely certain he was talking about able bodied people and excluding the disabled and elderly.

When you speak at a rally, by definition you are trying to whip up enthusiasm. Putting in disclaimer remarks lessens the effect. So please, give Bob the benefit of the doubt on this one. He respects you.

Thanks

[Kathy Hagan]

I too was at the Rally in Hess village and was appalled that Bratina said if the fans can't walk from here { or the area} " They have no business going to a football game" He clearly disregards folk who for many reasons cannot walk even short lengths. Shame on him .
I hope the council sit down on Tuesday and make the vote with the best interest of this city and taxpayers forefront in their minds, that is their elected duty. If Mr Young wants a stadium on the East Mountain let him build it with his own money and with the aid of his wealthy business cohorts.

[Peter]

SteelCityPity...only a Moron would think that it's a good idea to post a comment devoid of any type of fact or common sense. Also, learn how to spell and use grammar and punctuation correctly. Just for you, here is the definition of a moron.

mōron "unintelligent, thoughtless"]

Kind of like your comment don't you think!

[Hamilton 34]

SO the truth comes out, this whole fiasco over the government pulling funding is a lie.

in the aritcle it says

Ian Troop has confirmed he told the provincial government Ottawa was not interested in funding a west harbour stadium, but federal Sports Minister Gary Lunn denied the Conservative government has a favourite site and said no federal funding is contingent upon the location.

so this guy is responsible for this mess in terms of creating confusion. The Pan-Am CEO is just as bad as the Hamilton Tiger Cats

[Kevin]

I was at hess this afternnon and could not believe what came out of Bob Bratina's mouth,
And I quote, If you cant make the walk then you should not be going to a football game (he was referring to the parking at harbor west) wow what a thing to say about the people with disability's Guess those people should stay home . I have lost ALL respect , his words made me sick to my stomach.

[doug]

as bugs bunny would say mayor Fred your a maroone, the rest of council are happy they don't have to make a tough decision, so now they can attack fed and prov gov. and sound like heros
Ivor Wynn stadium isn't perfect for the Tiger Cats but its a lot better than the west harbour site
Ivor Wynn has car access from all directions with hamilton major urban roads.
Try getting to or leaving the west harbour especially from the north
West Harbour = Tiger Cats gone

[Sick Of Hamilton]

The Pan-AM games were supposed to be exciting and so was the planning. The experience has been completely ruined by all this fighting. I have lost faith in the Hamilton Tiger Cats and the City. If there Pan-Am committee was smart, they would pull the stadium and all venues from the Hamilton area.

I am disgusted by this whole fiasco and sadened that something that was supposed to be a great experience has now been turned into everything from infighting to blackmail.

SHAME ON YOU!

[Vice]

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Governemenst now backpeddling.... saying they will not intervene in the location.

Still a joke and we need to find out where this non sence came from.
Mr Braley, I hope you are comfortable owning 3 teams.
Just think, the teams in the most lucrative parts of Canada (South On) draw the worst. Any chance it is because they are not viewed as top tier entertainment?

[Dave R]

Bamboozled behind our backs by our own council.

Wake up people, they claim council has not made a decision as to stadium location, if that is true for what purpose have they spent close to 8 million dollars in land acquisition at the west harbour site for?

Or have these purchases been made without council approval???

Our mayor and council love the proverbial lets blow and suck at the same time, buying these lands for a stadium while at the same time claiming they are open to discussion and such of other possible locations!!!!

[Tom Robertson]

I hope that all the riding organizing committees of the conservative party in Hamilton have sent a message to the head office that in their thirst for a majority they have guaranteed themselves no seats in Hamilton or any other community that doesn't want their civic business dictated by Ottawa.

[Joanne Feyerer]

We should never have included Bob Young in these discussions, I don't recall him being elected anything. This is the grossest form of cronyism I have ever seen. Would the funding have been pulled if the decision had already been made for the West Harbour? There should be a full investigation into this and if you vote either Liberal or Conservative ever again you may be giving away your rights and any hope that Canada may be a democracy. This is indeed a summer to reflect on what you want your Canada to be. First the G20 now this. Absolutely disgusting.

[Frances]

I agree about the "template" aspect of the Ticat/Bob Young supporters. Nice try. This is municipal politics - feds and province, stay out. No money from the Future Fund for the stadium - none.

[Ken]

Let the Tiger Cats, the provincial government and the Federal government pay for the mountain site. I do not know anyone in this city that thinks the mountain location is good for foodtball, maybe farming is a better fit. I think the city should refus to play. I am not going up there, who wants to drive to a game when I can walk to it. I can right now! Forget the Ticats. There was story awhile ago that said the market value of the team was minimal. I agree and as the team will now be outside downtown where all the services are, who really wants to go there? Its all about the 20 dollars that the ticats president was to charge for parking. Forget it city. I hope you give the ticats the finger.

[John]

Well said Ernie, Im not saying East Mountain is perfect, but WH was such a waste of time and energy to even discuss.

What the local gov should do is focus on using this "outrageous display of authority" (reads more along the lines of saving us from ourselves) as leverage to get the province to openly agree to the rezoning of the WH lands to Multi-rez, while continuing with the acquisition of land, and remediation. Not too sure if you've noticed, but we dont have an abundance of lakeside residential property for Condo's...much better use of the land. Will bring more people into the core on a regular basis then any sports complex would, not to mention more annual tax revenue.

Another idea would be to back peddle and become buddy buddy again with the only professional sports team this city has. If you were an outside interest looking to expand here would you appreach the stance the city took against the team?

[Bob]

We still make our own decisions in Hamilton. Go to OurCityOurFuture.ca and tell council to pick the stadium site they think is best.

[Peter Michael]

@Shannon

You're absolutely correct. Just look at the RedHill and City Hall renovations. There was enough debate re: those in the city, in the end they went through and now they've been forgotten and it's business as usual.

[Blair D.]

This is another great reason why I have lost all faith in government.

I'm at a loss for words as to how anyone can see this as anything other then a back alley deal between the federal government and a private corporation.

The communities lose out.

I cant even imagine voting for these people ever again.. its like signing my name to promote criminal and unjust activity.

[Ian]

Only stands to reason, whoever is giving the money away has the right to decide where it is going. However, the Hamilton frame of mind is just give me taxpayers money and I will do what I want with it.

[Sam G]

Fair is fair. Pull the funding. Let the TiCats pay it all.

I was going to watch my first game at the new stadium in the west harbour, but now I am not watching anything CFL.

The decision was already made! Council needs a 2/3 reconsideration. I doubt that will happen, thus the stadium is done.

Let's spend our money on something where we all benefit.

[Judy Hendry]

I thought the mafia had more or left Hamilton. Silly me. They've just gone to the Senate,the Provincial and Federal governments, and some own football team. The Mayor sounds like a saint.

Judy Hendry

[ed]

Freddie and his gang's arrogance has finally caught up with them!

He speaks of 'community' but the 'community' of the WH decided many years ago that they didn't want a stadium (see Setting Sail - North End West Neighbourhood Plan).

It's not that we didn't want anything; we just wanted something that would vitalize our WH area!

He and his band of merry 'what's its', in one fell swoop, decided to overturn a decision that not only DID the community approve but the FORMER COUNCIL approved!

With regard to the Feds and Province and their withdrawal of funds, high five! After all, this funding (Conservative and Liberal) comes from other Canadians and other Ontarions.

And what a wonderful opportunity for Freddie and gang and the Ti-Cats to blame others for a decision!

I look forward to seeing a far more reasonable approach to planning in my WH neighbourhood.

[Ernie Geisel]

Finally reason prevailed. East Mountain site or not, the West Harbour site is so unsuited that it defies reason. It had nothing to offer downtown but clogged traffic. People don't go to a stadium and shop and dine at the same time. The West habour needs people attractions year round. A stadium needs traffic access. Whoever pulled the right strings needs our admiration.
Ernie Geisel

development

[D. Shields]

Harper -please Go Away & run your own constituency with an iron fist, & see if you get re-elected!

Ditto McGuinty-get lost! You haven't carried out a single election promise that meant anything.

Ti0Cats, either play where your fans are, or find another place -at your own expense.

Pan Am Stadium, away you! Go to another cornfield, maybe in Pickering, or Oakeville. I don't care where, just GO!

[John Noseworthy]

The City got exactly what it deserved. They have been notorious for sitting on their hands for years, costing this City many golden business opportunities. As for the Prov. and Fed. governments jumping in, well maybe it was to protect it's self from more embarrassment from the City Fathers. We have looked like idiots for almost the last decade. I'm glad they stepped in to save us from them.. It's been obvious to many that this council can't work together. Instead of galvanizing the citizens of this city, they instead chose to pit one against the other.

I'm looking forward to putting this behind us and getting things moving. Hopefully, although unlikely we will have many new councillors come election time.

[John Goodman]

Finally this drama is dead. Those baby boomers who wanted the WH site can watch it on TV and pass the torch to us young guys. Let's face it downtown is dead. Dozer it and build a park. Our mayor and council got what they wanted. They didn't have to make a big decision that would affect there seat. Hamilton will vote them in and they can collect there $80000+ paycheck. It's another Summer of SAM lol

[SteelCityPity]

Only a Moron would think a good idea to use the East Mountain as a site - taking away any future tax revenues we may garner. Had the Waterfront site been selected "non sprawl" housing would be erected WITH PRIVATE MONEY - what a thought - giving a totally different perception of hamilton from a shore type view. THEN we could develop whatever else on East mountain be it resedential, commercial or even industrial - collecting MUCH NEEDED Tax revenue for this city.
And would the Bob Young employee who continues to post here using different names please stop - or at least stop using the same template of comments - its embarrassing.

[woody]

It is very important that in all the hype for the stadium loication, all the players involved do not forget the importance of expanding the Eramosa karst Conservation Area.
In relative terms the stadium issue is very short term.
The Eramosa karst area is 12000 yrs old in its present state.
Expanding the park to the ORC lands to the east will ensure it is kept natural well into the future. Measured in many stadium life times.

[Helen Ramsay]

HOW DARE THEY!

Whether you were for or against the West Harbour if you feel the Federal Government had no right to effectively emasculate OUR elected Council and dictate where OUR money should be spent, please let them know.
As far as I'm concerned we should just forget the whole thing and use the Future Fund money for downtown redevelopment and to fix some of the structural problems (aging pipes) that we have here in the city.
Go with the original plan to fix up Ivor Wynne and let the Pan Am Games go to TO. I think that's what they (the Feds) probably want any way and this is their way of letting us know!
For those of you not in Hamilton, some time in the future they could just as easily override decisions that should be left to your local governments as to how/where YOUR money should be spent.

[Peter]

Once again, I am reading comments from the vocal minority. All of you, including the mayor, should stop whining and accept the best and most common sense site for a new stadium. West Harbour was just a wrong choice from the get go. Poor poor road infrastructure, no parking and no visibilty. And Marc...you point out that this decision was made to make Bob Young wealthier. Too funny and get to know the facts before you open your mouth so to speak. Mr. Young has lost close to 30 million and he wants a stadium that will help him recoup his losses. He has put his money where his mouth is and has kept the TiCats in Hamilton. I bet most of the people who want the West Harbour site complain about the HST and higher gas prices which takes money out of their pockets. Not even close to the amount MR. Young has lost. Maybe all of you harbour supporters should show real support and collect 30 million and give it to Mr. Young to say thanks for keeping the TiCats here. Then you would have a say and a small amount of credibility. So all of you go to your West Harbour rally tomorrow during the same time the TiCats are playing. You people are real supporters...of hypocracy that is! Oh, and to revitalize downtown a stadium is not the solution. People, and lots of them, moving into the area is.

[Spek]

Someone had to step in and tell it like it is and do what is best for the city. Our city council has a long and unimpressive history of screwing up major decisions. The West Harbour would have been another one if not for the two levels of government. To slam Senator Braley is reprehensible considering the amount of money (millions) he has donated to worthy causes here in Hamilton that enhance the lives of all people in the Hamilton community. His donations include: $5 million to St. Joseph's Healthcare for a kidney-urinary care unit and 18 operating rooms, $10 million to Hamilton Health Sciences for a cardiac, vascular and stroke research institute, and $5 million to the McMaster Athletics Centre. To have the resources available to donate such vast amounts of money to charity can only come from very successful business ventures and stable leadership. If I were in governement I would certainly listen to his opinion much more so then a bunch of people who really don't have the pedigree to make multi-million dollar decisions.

[Adrian Chong]

When the Pan Am games was announced the Federal and Provincial governments promised some $134 million of taxpayers money. Every time there is 'free money' available people with $$ in their eyes go after it - in this case our mayor and the owner of our football club. The 1st sensible decision was track and field who realized their sport makes more sense in a university setting than downtown. There is already a stadium for professional soccer in Toronto. If I am running the higher levels of government I'd move the soccer events there and not WASTE taxpayer's (MY) money building a new stadium.

[Andy]

Pete, I agree with everything you say except the go Argos part. Don't forget the Argos are owned by David Braley, the man behind the Fed's move to force us to subsidize his buddy Young.

Go Bills!

[Pete]

Bob Young's negotiating tactics to force the City to use east mountain location is an insult to all Hamiltonians. The "caretaker" should
learn how to field a good football team or get out of the business and move into something that he understands.

I hope Mayor Fred and Council remove the 60 million dollar offer to build the new stadium because this is no longer a local decision that benefits our community. The funds should still be used to develop the West Harbour as a major tourist attraction as another step towards revitalizing the downtown core.

Bob Young can assume the additional financial burden and risks associated with development of the new Ti-Cat home on the mountain without any help from the City since he has been awarded the location by our powerful Federal and Provincial friends?. The local MPP's should be embarassed!

Go Argos!! LOL

[James Scearce]

Don't be surprised if you see Karlheinz Schreiber sitting in Bob Young's private box during the first half of the Ti-Cat game and then move down to sit beside Conservative Senator David Braley in the second half. That isn't a hot dog in his brown envelope. I think we can all figure out why the feds won't fund West Harbour, it's the way they do business.

[Pauly Walnuts]

People, get a grip! Where was the discussion when the west harbour site was selected? Why was Confederation Park never put on the table? Mayor Fred has been doing his own back room dealings also. Nobody was complaining about it being an undemocratic process then. Realistically, the west harbour site was dead when the decision to reject the perimeter road, which would give easy access to downtown, was rejected back in 2005. Having a stadium with no access to it is just a plain dumb idea. All the examples of the other cities that have successful downtaown stadium sites have one thing in common - easy highway access to the downtown. Think about it. Plus, if the west harbour site is supposed to be a catalyst for connecting the downtown and waterfront, as well as helping re-develop the downtown core, is a stadium the wisest thing to build on this site? Instead of slagging Bob Young, the people of Hamilton should be thanking him for redirecting this train wreck of a decision making process. My Hamilton includes the east mountain!

[Da Commish]

I would please ask someone on City Council to request from both governments the lengthy reports that they have, with all details and numbers attached, that they are basing their conclusions of one location being viable while another is not.
Surely they did some homework and are not part of collusion?
Saddest day in our History I think. First Bettman, now these guys. I will say I will be happiest if we spend NO Future Fund $ on the pan am games. Give Ivor Wyne stadium minimal $ and let Young run his business the way everyone else has to - with their own money!

[Alfred]

Yes finally a decision on this stadium fiasco.

We had our chance but City council could not make up there minds and we have already lost the track and field venuses for the Pan Am games.

If council was allowed to continue we would probably have no stadium anywere as the Pan Am games would have backed out completely.

It not the ideal solution but at least we now have a decision that has been made for us as we could not do it ourselves.

[Cynic Speaks]

Once again, the Conservatives show their true colours. What billionaires want, billionaires should have. And none of that vulgar "democracy" nonsense.

Pull all City money from the Pan Am fiasco now!

[Doug]

The repercussions of this decision will felt in all quarters. "Be careful what you wish for."

[Hammerfan]

Thankfully the federal and provincial governments stepped in before council built the mistake by the lake .

[Marie]

if they build on east mountain than the provincial and federal governments should pay for it all NOT US TAX PAYERS and our city should say fine go ahead and build BUT YOU GET NO MONEY FROM THE CITY
also if the team says they are leaving because they don't get their own way WELL DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON YOUR WAY OUT

[Rick Gorka]

As an East Mountain resident, who grew up in the east end of Hamilton, I was shocked to read that the provincial and federal government pulled financial support for the west harbour site.

The east mountain does not need future fund support. It has enjoyed stable growth through on going private investment, fueled mostly by the city of Hamilton’s investment in the Red Hill Expressway and the Lincoln Alexander Parkway.

The Ti Cats and a stadium in the ‘burbs’ are not critical to the revitalization of the heart of our city.

What is critical is that we as a community stay focused on development in the core of our city. In staying focused we need to ensure that our future fund capital is spent taking positive steps to modernize our great city from the inside out. A hollow tree eventually rots and falls.

We need to spend future fund capital on core city projects such as:
• Brown field remediation
• Infrastructure Improvements (roads sewers etc,)
• Accessibility (LRT, expanded Go Train, improved automobile access)
• Parks and recreation
• Support for new residential development projects

These types of investments will bring the city back to a place where investors will again support development in our core, and then private investment will take off similar as it has on the east mountain.

We may never be able to replenish this fund, I urge you not to support the east mountain stadium with money from this fund even if it means we loose the stadium and they move Pan Am soccer to the GTA, (big deal).

This past spring, I had to make a choice on how to spent some of my own hard earned money, do I invest in a new roof and eaves, or do I replace my aging TV with 50” flat screen. I went with the roof. Council has a similar and obvious decision to make with the future fund.

If the Ti Cats want an east Hamilton stadium, then let them pay for it and build it on their own, just like every other private enterprise on the east mountain.

With the upcoming election, every vote will count, I will be watching how council votes on this issue very closely, I trust a smart decision will be made by most (wish I could say all)

[Mike Bell]

Amazing how many people here must work for Bob Young. Regardless of where the stadium goes, why are we even thinking of subsidizing Bob Young who has a person fortune of over $400 million dollars.

This is the worst form of corporate welfare ever. It only mean that Bob will make all the profits while we the tax payers of Hamilton pay all the bills for him.

Bob has the money to build the stadium himself, so make Bob pay for it himself, or lets get an owner who know how to run a business.

[Eric]

The Mayor of Downtown Hamilton is to busy nursing his ego to ensure that interests of the whole City of Hamiltin are looked after regarding the building of the stadium and the Pan Am Games.

Someone on Council needs to take on the role of "Mayor of the City of Hamilton" to ensure that we move to the next level and ensure that the interests of the whole City are looked after regarding the future stadium.

[storminnorman]

Great. An unelected millionaire with a financial conflict of interest in the CFL is calling the shots on behalf of everyone who lives here and pays taxes.
I respect the work the mayor and council have done. I hope they just say no when it comes time to vote on this political blackmail. And I hope thousands join me in pledging to never, ever pay a cent to support Scott Mitchell and the Ticats. They should get the hell out of our town.

[Mike Russell]

I think it would be a good time for some of our local MP's to start asking for an investigation into influence peddling by a certain newly appointed federal official from this area. If that person has anything to do with the decision it would be a clear conflict of interest since that person owns 1/4 of the teams in the league.

There should be complaints filed with the auditor general to investigate this decision. This could end up being a scandal the likes of which the Conservatives have never seen.

[kevv]

who's fred trying to kid ,
he and his merry band of fools buying up houses before the site was even chosen.
the boys downtown must be pssed ,cant sell their contaminated land they bought and have been trying to unload it for tripple the price they paid.
i never heard of any debate ,other than the closed door meetings they had.
if the west harbour is so great why has no one built anything there in 50 yrs.
we had no choice when the counclors spent tens of millions on the boardwalk.
pie in the sky visions the lot of them.
just remember when the concrete slabs at city hall turn black,who made that decission

[Michael Cunliffe]

I've never been much of a football fan but I believe a football team should not run a city. Therefore, boycotting the Tiger-Cats is now in order. Bob Young needs to realize there are already enough bully boys in politics and we don't need any more. Shame on every level of government over this stadium fiasco! And shame on the Ticats!

[Josie]

You can build your stupid stadium where ever you want because I don't care. I will never go there. I have lived in Hamilton all my life and have never attended a Tiger Cat game. Not one cent of my municipal taxes better go to that white elephant. I'm already taxed to death for my little 900 sq. ft. house. I avoid the downtown core even more now that the streets were made two way and the traffic is horrendous. Two way streets were supposed to encourage more people to visit the downtown area. What stupid municipal government logic. And those stupid roundabouts in Ancaster that cause more accidents then prevent them. Who makes these decisions. Hamilton has become a suburb of Toronto and is governed by a bunch of morons.

[Shannon]

Ten Years from now when the new stadium is built (or the old one renovated) Ti cat fans and citizens alike will be grateful regardless of the decisions that have taken place over the last weeks. Let's face it... both parties have their own interests when it comes to both sites and the media and local government has made one hell of a mess of the whole thing! Thinking the stadium would revitalize the West Harbour is and always has been a pipe dream. But, I think because of these events we should all be even more motivated to ensure that the harbour site prospers- I truly believe that it has a better chance without a stadium.
As for the people saying they will not attend a game if it's played on the east mountain, well these people are not true fans of the game. The players and the great sport of Tiger Cat football should not be punished. Even if a lot of you don't agree with Bob Young he is right about one thing- the Hamilton Tiger Cats ARE Hamilton. You cannot find their legacy in any other town. Continued support for the Cats is essential or in the end this entire debacle will have been a waste! Anyways, once you get caught up in a Ticat game you won't remember what side of the city you're on!
Oskee weewee

[Cameron Bond]

I think it's fantastic that someone stepped in and stopped council's madness. Someone should investigate city council. Who own's property down in the West Harbour (or their friends) purchased in the last while. The mayor has been anything but flexible with that site. And he's crying foul?!?

[David H]

I am absolutely incensed by this sabotaging of due process and democracy. Let the TiCats move to Burlington and spend their money building a stadium off one of the service roads or near one of the GO stations there. I supported the West Harbor location as it is rare to find a successful city without a vibrant core. I will call my councilor and ask that he support Hamilton not spending a nickel of taxpayer money on the east mountain location. Let the Feds, the Province and Bob Young foot the bill if they want it so badly. We do not need the PAN-AM games and certainly not at the cost of being blackmailed by the TiCats, and having our democratic process deep sixed by higher levels of government... who have been influenced by the parties who would 'win' with a east Hamilton stadium.

[Wild Bill]

Thank God someone put a stop to this trainwreck! As usual, Hamilton was hell bent for leather to try to ram through a west end harbour, leaving the Ti-Cats to lose money forever. This city has NEVER understood any business but steelworkers' union negotiations! We have lost so much business with their jobs these past decades and it seems every time something comes up like Maple Leaf Foods our councillors find a way to torpedo it! All we ever seem to get are public sector jobs, like medical or halfway houses. That's not enough for a healthy economy.
Mayor Fred is probably secretly relieved. He was taking the Ti-Cats for granted and if he had got his way they would have been forced to leave! Now he escapes the blame and can rail against someone else for being 'undemocratic'.

[David A.]

Big mistake, as time will tell. Some people can't see outside the box. A second thought, how will this East Mt. stadium effect water shedding down the mountain expressway?

[dimeboy]

One thing that the Tiger Cats, the Feds and the Province are forgetting is that everyone has a vote. For the Feds and the Province we can choose to vote them out at the next election, and I think we should. For Bob Young and the Tiger Cats, we can vote by not going to the games or buying their merchandise. I used to be a seasons ticket holder. I will now be a non ticket holder period. I find it funny that they want to build this stadium where they want it or else and think that there will be no response from the people. Go ahead and build the stadium on the mountain and see an empty shell stand vacant.

I am not sure if the Tiger Cats know anything about the area that they want to put the stadium. The residents in the area successfully cancelled a Family Carnival and Fireworks display on the Victoria Day weekend because of noise and property damage. There is no alcohol on sale at this event. They are now wanting to put a stadium in the same neighbourhood. I don't think that they want to run the first dry stadium in North America. Which also brings up the point of how many people will end up drinking at the game and then drive home "buzzed"? I think that its crazy to think that the Feds and the Province are basically almost promoting drinking and driving by making this move. The West Harbour location was more about using public transit so that drinking and driving is not done.

This whole process sickens me.

[Sticks]

I think its great that the feds stepped in and stopped council from making a huge mistake of putting a stadium in the west harbour. The city says roads will need to be improved on the mountain to handle the increased traffic, but they weren't going to fix the ones in the west. Without fixing the roads in the west it would have taken you hours to get from somebody's lawn and out of the area. At least on the mountain if they leave the roads the same it won't take hours.

[John]

I have to say, such an interesting democracy we live in. Where it appears well connectd private enterprise pulls federal financial leavers, which in turn pull provincial financial leavers only to leave the biggest funding municipal gov't with no say in where the stadium is built. If Scott Mitchell says the Ti-Cats will never play in Westport...I hope Ti-Cat fans take the same approach and never attend a game in a stadium built on the mountain. It would be really interesting to know if David Braley did have any role in this charade and farce.

Btw...back in 1983 when they were looking for a site for the Skydome...guess where the favoured provincial location was....by the TO waterfront....read it for yourself... http://torontoist.com/2009/06/historicist_the_road_to_skydome.php

[Marilyn Dion]

As a City of Hamilon taxpayer, I am absolutely furious. Where is our freedom of choice? What has happened to democracy? We elected city counsellors to represent us and now the rug has been pulled out from under them/US. Sure, lets turn the other cheek and let the province, the federal government and yes, the TiCats - let them get their way - BUT NOT WITH ANY OF OUR CITY DOLLARS - not even to renovate the old stadium. Political process has been undermined by their underhanded dictatorial 'old boy' network.

DO NOT FUND THIS STADIUM with one single city dollar - only football has been represented at the table; many other sports have taken a back seat including all those important to the PAN-AM Games...you know the major project behind the whole mess!!

The West Harbour development has come a long way and more development there is the way of the future for this city. Many citizens who live on the 'mountain' do not realize the extent of the changes there now - the sail boats, the swan families, the picnic areas,the trails. People love to be near water. The area is also geographically much closer to Toronto (unless you want to spend another 30 minutes each way driving to and from the East Mountain - the Linc can be even slower that that at times) But then causing more pollution and spending "$50 to $80 million" more dollars seems to be okay with both the provincial and federal governments. It is NOT ok with ME!!

City councillors should VETO the province and the federal government on this issue. The Ti-Cats want to CONTROL the city - I say NO WAY to communist tactics. This is CANADA where people enjoy the debate and freedom of choice. Lets keep it that way!

[Who Cares]

West Harbour makes no sense. There is no route in or out of the area needless to say there will be no place to park. This isn't about the "Hearts & Minds", this is business and if you want it to work, you need parking and access... Period!!!

[Josh Thomson]

This stinks so bad. All Canadians should be looking at this and perceiving how corrupt our government really can be.
But alas, the public will just go with the flow on this and nothing will get done about it. All we can do is throw out those useless MP's/MPP's out in the next election(s) with possibly more useless MP's/MPP's. I understand that you may feel that the gov't should step in so we don't lose the stadium altogether. However, there was an ultimatum (which was wrong and disrespectful to the city) in the negotiations which was the beginning of the end of this debate. I Feel very bad for Mayor Fred - his hands were tied. He respectively gave the Ti-Cats a say and they threw it in his face. I believe City/Ti-Cat relationship bridge is almost burned and will take some time to repair.

[Yves Dubeau]

Regardless of what side of the discussion one stands we cannot put the blame solely on the evil forces that were in the same wrestling ring as mayor Fred was.I have yet seen our mayor deliver concrete benefits to the city of Hamilton. Fred Eisenberger on the onset of the facilitation process wanted Dalton to join in the discussion if Fred was not happy with the result of the facilitation process. You have to be careful what you wish for! This stadium site decision was long overdue by council after the city requested extensions. When you delay making decision you risk that others will make for you.

[Cheryl]

Unbelievable
This is outrageous,how can 1 day make a change so late when the Goverments knew of this ongoing debate.
Also where the PAN AM Games given to Hamilton with a stadium on East Mountain NO it was WEST HARBOR.
As long as i live in Hamilton I will never support TiCats or New Stadium on Mountain

[Frances]

Disgusted doesn't begin to describe how I felt this morning while reading the article in the Spec. I'm almost speechless at this total disregard for the democratic process and municipal politics. It doesn't matter how long we were taking to decide...the decision was this city's to make. The decision should never have come from the back rooms of the federal and provincial governments (which are run by different governing parties -- so how did THAT partnership come about?).

We woke up in Russia - no wait, Russia is a democracy now. Frighteningly, we did wake up in Canada. Who do these politicians think they are? Or should we now address all comments to His Royal Highness Bob Young?

[d. Knox]

The Feds and the Province say they'll support an East Mountain site, not that they'll pay for it. They spit in our faces, and still expect us to contribute money. No money. None. This is pure private interests now and has nothing to do with a vision for the City of Hamilton.

No money from the taxpayer should be spent on this dirty deal.

[mel]

The decision has been taken out of the hands of our local elected representatives. Their apparent vacillation and procrastination can be explained by the urgent need to collect data, listen to all parties, and respond to the needs of the entire community. Bravo...they were not going to be rushed, pushed, or coerced by special interests.

I am appalled by the federal and provincial interference in this process.

I hope it means the CITY will no longer be obliged to put up ANY money for the project. So what if we "lose" the PANAM connection? Spend the money on urban redevelopment in the heart of the city, where the needs are most pressing and the ultimate benefits much more promising.

As for the Tiger Cats... who cares? I have lived in this city all my life and never been to a game! By choice, year after year! Count the average attendance and compare it to the total population of Hamilton. Building a new stadium won't change the minds of people who are too busy, too poor, or too smart to spend their leisure time and money watching a few well armoured thugs push and chase each other around.

This has been a test of our values... urban infill and redevelopment vs large scale exploitation of an unspoiled rural property.

But big money trumps common sense and long term vision. I am disgusted!

[Joe]

I don't know if west harbour is the best place for a stadium, but I know east mountain most definitely is not.

Enough of the Steinbrenner scam of diverting municipal money to the pockets of sports owners with no expectation of return. Let the stadium die and let's focus on LRT, cleaning up west harbour and fixing the infrastructure already.

[Bob]

What concerns me in addition to the total disrespect of democracy by the feds and province is the 58% of people in your poll that feel it's ok for these levels of government to interfere. The city was within the guidelines set out to receive this funding. There is no way to justify outside interference.

Use the money elsewhere and let the Ticats look after there own stadium. The city needs the west harbour development, Young needs the east mountain. Let him pay for it himself seeing he wants all the revenue from running the stadium

[Mark]

Abort the Pan-Am stadium.

We can do better for the West Harbour with the Future Fund, especially now that the Federal and Provincial money is off the table. This is a power play to get already rich hands on a alluring pot of Future Fund gold. Renovate Ivor Wynne over the next 5 years or so to shut the Ti-Cats up and be done with the whole mess.

Abort the Pan-Am Stadium.

[disgustedagain]

I am disgusted by this turn of events. It absolutely reeks of corruption and I now believe that NO tax dollars should go into this white elephant. Shut it down now.

[sam]

Hmm...let's see. Ms. Sophia is MPP for Hamilton Mountain...enough said on that one. She can play the "oh me oh my, my bosses told me this" card all she wants. She has her interests in mind here also. Then there's David Braley, that of the "Mr. Knight In Shining Armour" clothing. More like fox in sheep clothing. He has his interest in mind. Then there's Bob (Howdy Doody) Young...enough said on that one.

The best thing is to scrap the whole thing. Spend money on fixing up Ivor Wynne or build a smaller stadium in the West end. We can't let bullies win. Scrap the Pan Am games here in Hamilton if you have to but don't let private interests tell us how to spend taxpayer's money. I too will watch council to see how they vote on this.

People will be smart and on to the councillors that use the old "oh, I didn't have a choice now that we had a gun to our head" line.

There's always a choice, especially if you are an elected member that listens to the majority's interests.

The Cats can take a big hike as far as I am concerned. I used to be a season's ticket holder and have gone to games but never again. Not one dime from my pocket will go there. To those that say "the Cats are Hamilton"...you're dreaming in technicolor"...wake up.

[Sad Day]

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
~ Franklin D. Roosevelt.

[POLYTRICKS]

After this last slap in the face to our democratic process, does anyone still care about this stupid stadium. Let the tiger cat supporters (and include Braley here) build their stadium where ever they want...but with their own money...no city dollars.

I personally hope the tiger cats leave...they've poisoned their relationship with our community forever.

[Pam (yes, I go to the football games)]

I can't imagine any large objects impeding the harbour. Ivor Wynne and Copps have not revitalized any area, why would another stadium? They should use the existing Ivor Wynne/Scott Park land, and do something less intrusive at the harbour.

[Peter Michael]

Maybe next time the city will be able to make their own decision. Sit on the fence too long and someone higher up will make the decisions for you.

I still would have preferred a Confederation Park location but this is better than the West Harbour.

[ditter]

well well i do support the west harbour and am i bitter that its going to the east moutain not really but what really pisses me off is that the province and the fed had too stick there nose into this they dident give the city there time to resolve it and actuly maybe its a blessing with a little more bickering we could cancle the hole deal and get the cats to start paying rent i think it was said the city put 1.2 mill a year into the running of ivor winn i think its time that the cfl start too poney up if they wanna play here or do us the favor and leave

[Dan Jelly]

While many agree this is a huge blow to the West Harbour, it still has a very real chance of killing the East Mountain site as well. The City still has to approve funding and the Ticats still have to come up with tens of millions of dollars.

[Brian S.]

Alot of people have been trashing the mayor, but the way i remember things, Bob Young said month's ago that the ti-cats would play wherever we built the stadium, and the government was on board with the west harbour. In the last couple of weeks we have seen Bob Young, Scott Mitchell and Mark Cohon blackmail the city and as a season ticket holder i let the ti-cat orginization know that i was not pleased with their behavior. Now, the government flip flops and i suspect sinister dealings involving Bob Young's good friend and senator, David Braley.Every poll conducted has come out in favour of the west harbour. If there was a public vote today, the west harbour would win in a landslide. City council should pull all money from the stadium. If the government wants to go against the wishes of our council and the majority of our citizens, then they can fund it along with the ti-cats, and if Bob doesn't want to pay up, he could sell the team to Braley and then he would own three teams.

[Tom Robertson]

I am sure every councilor reads this blog. You now have no option left but to say to the province and the feds that since they are dictating where a stadium will be built feel free to do so and fund it between yourselves and Bob Young. Our Future Fund should be spent where the citizens of Hamilton want it spent. Every member of council is guilty in allowing it to get this far because their dysfunction and lack if leadership did not resolve the stadium location months ago. Ted and Sophia, load up your expense accounts because of the lies you told us last week will guarantee your defeat in the next election. Since this is an election year I challenge all councillors to comment here on this issue to show us if you are a man, woman or a mouse on how this issue has been dealt with by yourselves and the rest of council. Your silence will be deafening as to your fitness to be reelected. Ted and Sophia you both also owe an explanation to the taxpayers. I would also love to see comments here from the other candidates running for the up coming election.

[Sick of Hamilton stupidity]

Well the Hamilton Tiger Cats must be patting themselves on the back for a job well done of getting the government on their side. The Tiger Cats are just like the ontario liberals, always willing to waste tax dollars on what they think is the best, and let the people suffer the financial consequences. YEA! lets build a stadium on the east mountain where its prone to flooding and its an eco sensitive area! lets do it!, the tiger cats and government make me sick. Tiger Cat's I hope you lose every game and the Bob young gets fired. A WASTE OF TAX MONEY is what you are Hamilton Tiger Cats, for a stadium not even meant to be for you.

should the new stadium be east mountain. I say we:

BOYCOTT THE EAST MOUNTAIN STADIUM!

[Jay]

It's funny how people are saying, "the province/feds shouldn't be sticking their nose in our city's business." Yet, you guys have no problem sticking your hands out to the province and feds for cash, when it's the site that YOU all agree with. lol. Like, seriously!

There is A LOT of hypocrisy going on in this saga.

The province/feds have every right to make their own decision on what site it will support and will not support financially. It's their money!

[Disgusted]

I really don't know what to say other than I am totally p'd of at the Feds and the Province telling our city council how and where we have to spend our money!!! My first thoughts are "well fine then, you 2 governing bodies and the Tiger-Cats go ahead and build the stadium; we are not interested because the 60 million dollar Future fund is supposed to be used for downtown renewal. Lets just stay with Ivor Wynne.
If Council does decide to participate, then they better not spend the extra 8 million dollars for roads etc to access the wheat field; I mean stadium.