Drop in, and have your say

This is an experiment we're launching in response the high demand for information about thespec.com, why we do what we do and our philosophy. It's also a place to bring problems to our attention, where you'll know they are being noticed and acted upon. And you can leave your suggestions here as well.I will try to update and respond to issues as they come up, but that might not be immediate based on the demand and my other responsibilities. And so, we begin.

-- Some users didn't see our commenting guidelines posted prominently a few days back. I'll post them here in a separate entry and re-post from time to time as people need reminding.

-- Others wonder why we delete comments and users. Read the guidelines to understand that.

-- Some users who have been deleted for swearing complain they were not swearing because they used ### or *** or xx or -- to break up their vulgarity. That doesn't work. Just avoid swearing save the occasional hell and damn and we won't have a problem. Hiding behind ## doesn't cut it.

-- The problems we've been having trying to clean up commenting are not unique. The editor of one paper wrote this recently:

'Like many newspapers, we had high hopes when we first allowed readers to comment on stories on our website.

We introduced the feature three years ago. At the time, I wrote about the potential. Never in our community’s history had people of different backgrounds, beliefs and interests been able to have these kinds of conversations about developments and issues.

It hasn’t worked out as well as we hoped.

Yes, the comments are popular. We get about 10,000 a month. And yes, they bring traffic to gazettextra.com and allow people to interact. We tally about 4 million pageviews a month on our site, and many are related to comments.

The nastiness, however, is too much.

We’re not the only newspaper struggling with the issue. Papers around the country are assessing comments and implementing or looking for ways to make conversations on their websites more civil.

Starting today, the Gazette is taking a step that we hope will at least partly address the issue. It won’t solve the problems, but we think it will cut down on the ugliness.

We no longer allow comments on stories that involve crimes, courts, accidents, race or sex.

We and other papers identified those topics as the most troublesome. The comments typically start out OK, but they deteriorate into insults, innuendo or otherwise offensive remarks.

Those of us who monitor conversations on gazettextra have found ourselves consistently removing comments from such discussions and ultimately disabling threads. People simply can’t or won’t behave.'

Here's a link to the full story:

http://gazettextra.com/weblogs/editor/2010/nov/07/comments-eliminated-on-some-types-of-stories/

We are not planning anything like this at this time, but it does demonstrate how serious commenting problems can become if not managed appropriately.

Thanks for looking in. Check back again, and leave a comment if you're so inclined.

 

Comments

[Doug Dolbear]

My main beef with the comments is not the cursing, but the complete lack of civility and kindness. Most comment threads degenerate into immature name calling rather than any sort of rational discourse. Some people seem to get perverse pleasure by mocking the pain of the story subject. Case in point was the article about a dancer who suffered a painful injury that threatened to cut short her dancing career. One person responded with "Don't worry, I can't dance either". That to me is more offensive than a thousand curse words. One solution is to have someone moderate every post before it is published. Some would scream censorship, but I would disagree. In fact I think it's the only way to make the comment section worth reading. In its current form it serves no purpose at all.

[Les Farrington]

I notice, with the fall provincial election in mind, more adds are appearing on TV with the tag line..."brought to you by the Government of Ontario".
This tactic of using taxpayers money to promote parties in power is carried out by all parties and at both provincial and federal levels.
Shouldn't they really say "brought to you by the taxpayers of Ontario (or Canada)"
The recent Ontario Government (read taxpayers)donation of $22.5m to the Ivor Wynne upgrade is yet another example of governemnts using taxpayer dollars to promote themselves. They must think the electorate are stupid.

[Sheila]

I am wondering why I was blocked when all I asked was how the Spec determines what crimes get reported. For example I watched a crack house get raided on Barton St E. no mention on the Police Blotter. Do the police and the City have any say in what gets reported? Does the Spec have guidelines they have to follow from either of these sources because sometimes it sees that way.

I got blocked for asking this question and have no idea why other then perhaps I then perhaps I hit nail on the head so to speak and the Spec got offended.

[Sheila]

I asked the question how the Spec determines what crimes make the police blotter. And if there was any arrangement with the Spec - police and the city to not report for example the drug raids on Barton St. or violence in public places in order to make the area appear less dangerous. I thought a simple question but I got blocked for asking it.

[Ed2]

A point of concern for those who wish to talk or post in any manner they feel.

To me rap artists, or bloggers, or any participant who thinks I want to read or listen to extreme vulgarity has got their point of view wrong.

Read an article from the early seventies which is entitled'How your tax dollars were spent'.

We, the taxpayer, paid a so-called poet $100,000.00 to repeat almost the identical seven words you cannot say on radio and TV, over and over again for 5 stanzas. Yes, $100K because the reviewers felt this was what we now call "In your face" poetry.

It may be trendy to mouth a continuous stream of vulgarity, but to these people I ask. If you went to a bank or convenience store and the teller or clerk ragged names and vulgarity upon you, I bet there would be an outcry.

Say what you want to say because vulgarity just clutters the idea or opinion.

My favourite comedian said it best during an informal interview. Rodney Dangerfield was asked why his stage show lacked massive vulgarity and he replied, in my words as I recall it. "If you play to an audience for 2 hours and 40 minutes of it is cluttered up with streams of swearing, then you got ripped off in your ticket price.

Call me a wuss, call me overly sensitive, but the 'Shock Value' of vulgarity has worn off. Times and fashion change, get used to it.

Just as millions of those who wear pants hanging off their behinds as if their mothers forgot their clothing sizes or were too lazy to adjust hand-me-downs. And the oversized shirts, sideways hats, metal loaded skin, and long ago undistinguishable tattoo's have beome moot.

I must admit though I did see one incident that was a scream. Several youths were running to catch a transit bus and half tripped on their pants and had to hold them up and their hats whipped off and when they picked them up there were items falling from oversized pockets. Even the bus passengers had a laugh.

[JOHN CHUCKMAN]

The Globe and Mail has done a wonderful job of balancing interests.

Since I view a number of the world's best English newspapers daily, I think I can say the Globe offers the world's most interesting environment for comments, allowing them on almost every news story.

This to my mind is the best model with intense reader interest, and it also represents something important for the future - not too far away - when newspapers cease publication in paper.

[eleanor Anstruther]

I have never been to a TiCat game and I think there are many in Hamilton with the same attitude This city needs more than a money sucking stadium to get back on track How dare the city even think of using 40/50 million on a white elephant for a private enterprise. tHIS MONEY belongs to all Hamilton not to the Ti Cats. They are a private company Please go to Burlington and use the gift of land so generously provided by Paletta We cant afford it and the money can be used far more wisely in Hamilton if only the foolish councillors can ever get it to gether and learn to be a non confrontational bunch of fools at the civic table.

[Evan]

the hamilton city council is a joke. Absolutely disgusting. Confederation Park would be the ideal place for a stadium. "Important Green Space" what a joke. More like another dumping ground that the city can't afford to keep clean. Pan Am should never come to Hamilton. We're way to obnoxious and incredibly stupid. Keep Away.

[Christopher Angel]

Just thought I would leave one post and it is unlikely I will ever leave another. I have a huge problem with your posting guidelines. I do not want to have my right to use whatever language I deem appropriate without it being censored. Removing words that use sharacters such as #@ to soften the impact is just so over the top. I will leave this bush league blog for the hyper prissy.

[Bill]

Re: Stadium:
Saying the Ticats should build their own stadium is like saying Taxi companies should build their own roads, or the airlines should build their own airports. Government has a role in building the infrastructure that private individuals and companies use.

[t]

I am wondering where is the update on the naked man found on the golf course. Did he live? Was his identity discovered?

[norman mckee]

can you tell me why i have been locked out? i'm sure i haven't broken any of the guidelines.
(I'd need your log-in information to find that out. If you want to pursue it e-mail helliott@thespec.com)

[Heinz Held]

Re: Stadium debate.
We cannot afford this new stadium.
If the Tiger Cats want a new stadium let them build it and let them pay for it. They are a private for profit enterprise and should not be receiving public funds.

[kevv]

lets face it you loose again nobody cares wat the spec has to say.... edit all u want nobody will reply if u think your censorship is good for the masses

[Paul]

I am very dissapointed in the coverage of a certain story. I wrote a letter to the editor discussing the missing piece of the story but it has neither been printed nor has a story been written on the fact that the Hamilton Port Authority is seeking $50,000 from one lone concerned citizen who unsuccesssfully tried to slow the destruction of waterfowl habitat known as Farr Island by attempting to get a temporary injunction. Federal entities should not be procecuting citizens because they have valid concerns over their actions. You covered the controversy, the attempted injunction and the ruling, so why not the bitter revenge the HPO is seeking? The Spectator even published a picture of the island being destroyed.

(I don't have an answer for that, but will ask the assigning desk if they are aware of that angle on this story -- hme)

[B]

I have a question about commenting. If the Spec is monitoring the comments, which they appear to be, what is the point in having agree, disagree or offensive options? Doesn't really serve a purpose, especially when people click them all willy-nilly.

(Response: The commenting platform is used across our company, and as such used differently at different properties. While you have a point, I'd also note that users seem to like being able to cast their vote, so it's unlikely we'd stop that -- hme)

[Rob]

howard, the spec website is getting a lot worse than it ever was before you "updated" it. can you tell me why an article has to be printed over and over again such as the article regarding a lawyer making funny faces in court is posted three times on the same page??? I think you need to fire your webmaster and seek out another more competent webmaster....
(Reply: Articles show up in different sections depending on how they are categorized. As for you not liking the new site, I an't help you there. The response from users has been overwhelmingly positive, so you'll have to get used to it. And we don't have webmasters -- that's an obsolete term. Web operations are integrated with the overall newsroom -- hme)

[Steve Sheen]

I use to like watching speakers corner years ago,people would go on there and say what they wanted and seemingly got their points across or out if you will.I supported that free speech thing,and would still support free speech.That been said,i don't think there is a need for offending language on any free speech front.

[C. Ann]

So, this is a blog and its comments are moderated. The commenting component for posted stories feature is not moderated and I respectfully submit has been abused by many participants. Let's be honest. The reason The Spec is not moderating is about money. First, you are clearly not willing to commit any resources to have this feature moderated. Secondly, by having the feature not moderated, what you really do is generate 'clicks'. These clicks drive your on-line advertising rates. Has The Spec really thought this through? More clicks, more money, yet more exposure to risk for the organization.

[chris]

There is up and down, black and white, left and right, heaven and H,E, double hockey sticks. The paper is trying to have heaven without the hockey and I just don't think that is possible. It's like the internet itself. you have to wade through the garbage to find the good but I don't think anybody wants to not have it around. The paper is probably sensitive to the fact that it's bread and butter comes mostly from the "Bob Bratina" crowd. Their sensitivities conflict with a younger group who are not as abashed when it comes to expressing opinions or using inappropriate language. The very nature of online commenting promotes this. If you've seen how young people communicate on Facebook you will know what I mean. Online is the future of news. Good luck with your endeavour!

[chris]

"We no longer allow comments on stories that involve crimes, courts, accidents, race or sex."

LOL guys, that just about eliminates ALL the stories in EVERY paper.

[michaelcameron]

how come we can't comment on the police blotter?there is lots of good stuff there to talk about.like how the police on the 11 nov at concession & cliff got a warrant for a mans home for B&Es but then say the man is of no fixed address?well that would be an awfully broad warrant wouldn't it?

[pat]

Curious,
Why can I log in, post my comment but am unable to have my vote on other peoples postings registered.
It gives the impression that the voting is being manipulated.

Thanks
Blogger's note: we are having a problem with the commenting platform right now which we are working on solving. But if you vote and refresh the page, you will see you vote is counted -- hme)

[Tara]

to be quite honest what if the difference between me typing f*cking and effing they mean the same and as one poster said we aren't children and freedom of speech is our right just as it is yours. Quite honestly i think posts get deleted because the spec is offended by the truth at what us readers post

[Rob]

I'm reminded of an article I read quite some time ago. It's good advise, worth sharing and has changed the way I communicate online...

The Internet has added a whole set of ways to communicate with people near and far away – email, chat rooms, discussion forums, instant messenger programs, and even voice and video chats. During the long winter months after the holiday rush this can be a boon to anyone who doesn’t want to venture further outside than their living room, but misses hours of conversation and being caught up on all the latest news from friends and family.

Unfortunately there is a dark side. The ease and speed of communication, especially text-based – such as email or chat – can make for quick misunderstandings – and bad feelings that last a lot longer than a chat session. Here’s what you should keep in mind....

http://www.50plus.com/lifestyle/avoid-the-dark-side-of-the-internet/29132/

[kevv]

why should you censor my opinion,
if you dont like BAD words to bad
were adults not school kids grow up...
(Blogger's note: I'm afraid you've got it backwards. This isn't a publicly-owned site. As the proprietors, we have the right and responsibility to run it in a way that suits us and the needs of the majority of our users. And you have the right not to post at the site -- hme)

[Jim]

I have a problem with the Spec pages being very slow to load at times and ocassionally hanging my browser. When the page finally loads the "link to" box is up, although I have never clicked on this button. I have no problems with any other sites, just the spec and this box always pops up when my browser finally responds. Is this link/ box really necessary?

(Blogger's note: Jim, I have not heard of this problem before. I will copy your note to our digital development division and ask them for some input -- hme)

[Frank]

any chance of making the police blotter a bit more noticeable on the homepage? i wait every wednesday to read it, and the majority of the time i have to search 'police blotter', then the first one is from august 18. then i have to sort by date, then find the latest one. a few months ago this was located on the main page for at least a few days..

(Blogger's note: Fair point. We will work on doing that -- hme)